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Post by fAB on Nov 18, 2004 14:26:23 GMT -5
Hello everybody, fab here. Yeah, you all know me, the strict admin who likes to dish out SPAM warnings- or so I'm told. Just for once though I'd like to post something that, though inescapably connected with the forums, isn't an official Legends Station proclamation. In this regard please note that this thread has been posted in the General Discussion area instead of Site Announcements. I want to write to you all as a person instead of just a faceless administrator, and remind everybody that I am indeed a person, and I have feelings just like the rest of you.
Now, I don't mean to whine at all with this post, but I'm afraid it's inevitable that it comes off that way. Bottom line is that I've been getting a lot of undeserved crap lately, and I've had enough of it. I am seriously sick of people around these forums getting their little digs in here and there. All over I find subtle hints tucked away in peoples' posts. In so many words, people are saying to me that I am way too strict, that I deal out too many SPAM warnings, that I'm out to ban people who don't deserve it. Some people may not even realize they're saying anything of signifigance, but I can read between the lines, and it hurts. If you don't like me or the way I run the forums the least you can do is say it to my face!
It just so happens that I have recently been going through a very rough time in my life. There have been serious family issues that have had me on a bummer, and I mean serious. I also feel extra swamped with things to do, particularly I'm way behind on my online responsibilities (heck, it took me 3 months get Dia's b-day present done). On top of it all, I have an extreme motivation problem which ties into the weather. Yeah, winter's coming and the world is looking bleak. Though it may sound strange, cold and gloom do indeed affect my ability to do things, particularly artistically. So when I have a pile of projects that need to be worked on, and am having trouble making myself work on them, it's a bad situation. I am generally a very happy, very cheerful person, but add all of these factors together and it has worn me down. I've been stressed out big time, and closer to depression than I've actually been in a long time.
Would you have guessed it? Heck no! I haven't shown it a bit, have I? No indeed, I keep my troubles to myself, and despite everything that's going on, I have kept myself pretty cheerful, and continued busily plugging away at my numerous projects. Among those projects, nothing has been more aggravating and more time-consuming in recent days than taking care of the forums...
An influx of troublesome members was so bad that I finally got off my lazy butt after 2 months of putting off writing up the new rules thread... Yeah, watching over the forums and dealing out SPAM warnings takes time and energy. It isn't fun, and neither is banning people, except for the satisfaction of knowing once they're gone it's one less worry off my shoulders. So to get things in shape, I wrote up those new rules, as well as a number of additional guidelines. Took me at least 6 hours, and that's not counting the time spent going over and discussing the situations in detail with Feldinaut on AIM. Then there was the job of adding two new moderators, which may sound simple, but in actuality took a lot of time to seek out the right people for the job, and then add them to the team. Finally, I had to write up a letter to send out to all members, and with the way I stress every word when I'm writing, that took a nice chunk of time itself. I still haven't gotten around to deleting all the 0-3 members...
So here I am, in the middle of a sucky period in my life, pouring all of my energy into shaping this place up because I want these forums to be nice, clean, and professional, just like the main site. Maybe now you've got a better understanding of why it hurts to get those stabs from people. I get everything up to snuff, and haven't heard one good thing about it except from the Forum Staff. Anyone else who's had anything to say about it has been negative, negative, negative. If nobody cares that I make this a nice place, not to mention get mad at me for doing so, then what the hell am I bothering for?!
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Post by fAB on Nov 18, 2004 14:27:27 GMT -5
Things reached a definite climax last night in the Hanmuru Doll Club thread. The thread, which I graciously allowed to exist in the first place, has been home to a lot of remarks about me, but last night it took a major turn. Instead of silent whispers, the conversation went full bloom, openly examining and complaining about me and my performance as the admin of the forums. Everyone has the right to their opinion, and to voice their opinion, but this was done very inappropriately.
As fab the admin, I try to avoid publicly mentioning names in cases such as this. As fab the person, I don't see any way around it. This post by SIMSteven was the all out final blow:
Yo, rant incoming.
Know what? I've been thinking. What do you think fab values more: posts or members?
I'd have to go with posts. He's growing distant, it seems. He's too stuck up with post counts, rather that having fun. I haven't seen much good come out of him lately. It's just a matter of time before this place turns into another MMMatrix. That's how I see it.
He's starting to get on my nerves, with all this "SPAM WARNING!" crap. Hell, at MLU, we've got nice people that use our best judgement when deciding when to delete. We stick to the basis of friendship, even if there is an annoying member. All fab seems to care about is post counts and rank. WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER?! I'd rather have a fun board than a board whose moderators make me sick.
And to hell if he reads this. I'd like him to see his error. I'd rather he see his mistake than have a dead board.
This message does everything to try and bash these forums, my methods of forum keeping, and me personally.
Want me to see the error of my ways? Then e-mail or PM me! Tell me your concerns, the problems you think have arisen, and give me your take on what solutions can be made. No, this message is not at all about showing me my "error", it's just a vicous attack against me, nothing more. Anyone who gets around these forums has surely noticed that there has been growing tension between SIMSteven and myself for some time now. I guess it was inevitable that this situation would take place, and I know which events took place yesterday to push things over the edge. Hopefully everything will work out in the end...
There is much I could say at this point, but it would only make things worse. Instead, I'll just state my opinions and stance on the issues which are in question.
Which does fab care more about, post counts or members? God, I don't know how this question can even be thought up. I don't give a d**n about post counts. What I care about is members, good members that is. I never claimed that this place would welcome anyone and everyone. But we try to. In my eyes, good members are any members who read and follow the rules. Is that so hard? No. The rules are not strict, they're just firm. You want strict? I could point you to a great place for comparison. No matter what other problems I might personally have with members, it makes no difference as long as everyone follows the rules! That makes them a good member in the eyes of this admin. Post count is for the benefit of the members, and has very little bearing on anything in the scheme of things.
Is fab growing distant? You're darn right I am, and if after reading through this entire thread you can't see why, I'll spell it out again: I'm going through a very rough period in life, I've worked like crazy to get this place running smoothly, and I've received nothing but crap about it. Is it any wonder that I can't find the time or mindset to post just for fun anymore? Yesterday, this distance apparently triggered BM1-3 to write a post which showed concern that I might be losing interest in Legends. This is certainly not the case, my love for Legends is never ending and as strong as ever. My dedication to the Legends community also remains strong. Running these forums takes up a huge amount of time and energy, and so does Legends Station itself. I can't even recall how many hours have I spent in the past few days working on the new Bonne Machine section for Legends 1. So no, I'm not tired of Legends, but I am tired from feeling like I have to keep on working on things because of Legends.
MLU and MMLS? These forums are what they are, and as it says in the Rules & Guidelines thread, if you don't like it, nobody forced you to sign up. But for everyone's benefit, let me give my feelings on this comparison to MLU. As far as I'm concerned, MLU was once a paradise, and is now hell. MLU is the perfect example of chaos, and I believe MMLS is a good respresentsation of order. When I try to go to MLU, I see such a degree of SPAM and idiocy going on that it makes me sick to see what's happened to the place. I hardly ever visit there because of that, and I can tell you there are others who have come to that conclusion. SuperDanny is among my very best friends, he is an incredible guy, friend to practically everyone under the sun. But his most admirable quality is also MLU's downfall. This "basis of friendship" has created a place where just about anything and everything is tolerated, and the result is, as I said, chaos. As I also said (somewhere up in this seemingly endless post), I want Legends Station forums to be nice, clean, and professional just like the main site. If people want the MLU atmosphere, then they should go over to MLU and let this place be what it is, simple as that. My final word on the subject is that I'd rather shut these forums down than let them turn into what MLU has become.
To any and all who made it this far, thanks for hearing me out. Remember, my current mood has not been the best, and as of writing this, I'm obviously not trying to hide it any longer, so this message does indeed have a bitter tone to it. But sometimes even I need to get things off my chest... It should be interesting to see what sort of responses this thread receives. If anyone has anything further to say against me, say it here from now on and I'll be happy to listen to your concerns instead of quiet stabs.
Sincerely, fab, the admin, the person, the misunderstood
EDIT: Just came across another post by SIMSteven in the (soon to be infamous) Hanmuru Doll Club thread. More disapproval of how we do things around here, but alas, this one does offer solutions, and I do appreciate the effort there. Although, while it gives the appearance of being nice, I don't much care for the analysis which assumes to tell us how we do our job, coming from someone who is not in full possession of the facts, and is also avoiding some of the facts. And since I know I'll be asked for an example, here's just one of several:
"...don't harp on every single spam post."
By this you are stating that we deal out a SPAM Warning for every SPAM post in sight. At the same time you know very well that this is not the case, because I told you that I had already had to deal with/delete several of your SPAM posts before I ever gave you your first SPAM Warning, SIM. We let a lot of things slide, you have absoutely no clue how lenient we are, you just focus on what you don't like and complain about it.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Nov 18, 2004 15:23:58 GMT -5
*Emerges from Nuclear Shelter* The worst seems to have past... *Face melts off* Apparently not! Okay, since I didn't put out this fire before it started guess I'll post first. fab, I hate to say it there, but for half a second there I though SIMSteven, Justin and I had had it. Or even worst that you were going to shut down the site and this was the farewell thread... Don't Scare Me Like That Again! ! ! Otherwise, I appreciate all the work you do for the site, I just don't really see it, and I guess my lack of programming knowledge really shows in my lack of praise I guess. As for holding secret grudges my conscious is clean. (If you're referring to the "lIl lmlilslsl lTlelnlclhlil2l" when you refer to reading between the lines then . And regarding Tenshi2 I miss her but I see the logic in her expulsion, so any raw feeling toward you are double toward her. Addressing the reference you made to this being a tough time in your life and not showing... it showed. At least I saw it. You did clear a lot of things up, and while I sympathize with you, I'm not particularly one to send a thinking of you card... to ANYBODY. You should consider closing some things down for the time being, make a page that shows your workload (nothing anywhere near complex, just some bullets in a 'to do' like list... all two-thousand of points) so we can stand amazed at the mountain of work you've amassed. Finally, regarding you and SIMSteven... I'm just gonna steer clear of that for a while, I don't know what back stories you two have, while you both apparently consider each other's forums various shades of bad, I think its really two sides of the coin... , that doesn't make sense does it...?
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Post by feldinaut on Nov 18, 2004 16:12:34 GMT -5
Along those same lines, I have a question. What is the deal with all of you who have an attitude like the one displayed in the "Humaru Doll" thread?
I'm not accusing everyone here, but I've seen new members who will AUTOMATICALLY start worshipping fab and pleading for mercy when they get their first SPAM warning. I'm sure he appreciates being called "Master MMLS" about as much as I would (that is, not at all).
We're members too. That's how I started off, and that's how I want things to remain.
I don't know if it's just a mind trick or what, but those of you who behave differently towards the staff because we have fancy icons under our names seriously need to get over it. We're people. We'll ACTUALLY LISTEN TO YOU if there's a forum matter you want to bring up with us. But some of you just don't even try. That's absurd.
I personally did not accept the position of mod because I wanted to feel powerful and be worshipped by all the little members from the pedestal they've put me on. I'm a mod because I love these forums and wanted to help out with the maintanance. You get that, folks? I'm a JANITOR, not a queen.
And the very fact that we're trying to remain members and not just cold enforcers is the very reason why we HAVE such specific rules. For example, I as a member would like to see SIMSteven banned. I never liked the guy to begin with, and he's been rude to my friend fab to the point where he's felt the need to make a lengthy topic pouring out his emotions to the other members. But I can't ban somebody for absolutely backstabbing a fellow member and friend. So you see, the rules and rule-mindedness of the staff that SIM spends all his posting time whining about are actually keeping the staff from banning him out of personal spite. Ironic, right?
(I'm taking stabs at SIM here, I realize. Perhaps that's unprofessional of me as a mod, but if SIM wants to be a turd on a forum where every post can be read by every member, he'd better be prepared for those members to react. That's exactly what I'm doing.)
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Post by SIMSteven on Nov 18, 2004 16:39:17 GMT -5
You, know. I came here to have fun and be a member. That's all I wanna do. But lately, all I'm seeming to hear is "rules, rules." Things are as fun as they used to be. That's why I complained. That's why this whole mess started.
You know, just forget it. My pet peeves obviously aren't welcome here. (Shall not go into modding pet peeves, that are now rules.)
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Post by JMC47 on Nov 18, 2004 17:49:48 GMT -5
I don't think that I ever said anything rude, but if I did, please forgive me. Feldinaut, I may be misinterpreting what you said, actually I'm pretty sure I am, are you accusing everyone in the hamuru thread mean. It sounded like you said that by the way you worded it, but I'm just wondered. Come on, were at fabs forum, its his rules, SIMSteven, if your smart, you'd back down. I don't think there is even an arguement, its fab's rules. I don't at all think fabs rules are harsh. Come on, stop fighting, this is a legends forum where fans should enjoy the other MML fans, not fight each other. I'm sure there is some way you two(and anyone else) can sort this out.
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Post by feldinaut on Nov 18, 2004 18:39:24 GMT -5
No, I didn't mean to condemn you all. I just meant to refer to the general flow of conversation.
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Post by Notmyname on Nov 18, 2004 18:43:09 GMT -5
The whole website took a lot of work. i'm suprised at how fab did version 3, that is an AMAZING layout. I think your doing a good job. there lately has been alot of people posting random messages to raise there post count(EDIT:atleast it seams like that. never mentioned you, sim)
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Post by SIMSteven on Nov 18, 2004 19:24:27 GMT -5
No, I didn't care about post count either, and I didn't care about fab caring about post count either. I said posts, not post count.
Look, in a less verbal way, I'm saying that fab (yes, you fab) cares a little too much about perfection. So what if people have a grammar deprivation? That's not what ruined MLU. MLU was never ruined. It's still alive, active, has good members, and not the same "good members" that fab envisions. In fact, we're getting a lot of new members, and some old members that are coming back.
I know you have a pet peeve about proper grammar. I even do. But that shouldn't get in the way of a good forum. I've learned to live with it, rather than shut it out.
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Post by fAB on Nov 18, 2004 19:49:14 GMT -5
Granted, striving for perfection where it cannot be found may very well be my greatest flaw. But please don't cloud the issue with things that have no relevance.
References to spelling and grammar are listed under the "HELPFUL TIPS FOR FORUM CONDUCT" section. It's not a rule, nor do we get down on people for it. All it's there for is to raise awareness, because proper spelling and grammar does make the forums look better, and it makes people who use it look better. It's a helpful tip, nothing more.
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Post by JMC47 on Nov 18, 2004 19:56:27 GMT -5
SIMSteven stop giving fab a hard time. Didn't he mention that he wasn't in such a great mood. Why don't you put this behind you and continue enjoying the forum. This is a fight that you will not win, and one you should not be fighting, fab is just trying to keep this place under control.
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Post by Daisuke on Nov 18, 2004 20:03:03 GMT -5
EEP! *stumbled into the wrong thread* er......not being on much I really shouldn't have a say in this but as a friend I'll give my opinion. *Ahem*
Don't like attack me or nothing but I'm kinda taking both sides here, SIM your right fab has been going a little over the edge from what I have seen and you should try to relax more fab and have a little more fun that's what sites and forums are for if every forum and site tried to look the most proffessional we would all be robots and perfectionists. I have a question for you fab what did you make MMLS for? was it for fun and the pleasure of being a loyal fan? or was it because you wanted to have the best Megaman site ever by making it proffesional looking? I originally thought you did it as a loyal fan and as a way to have fun and meet friends.
Now moving on to the other side fab you are also correct, Sim you could have just IMed him his error and talked it out over IM's instead of saying his error outloud and I know he's been saying stuff outloud as well but be the bigger person. fab you seem to be going through a rough time in life as it seems from what I can understand from the way you posted in an angry type tone and I know what it's like considering I just got over a rough time in my life as well and am just recovering from it but the way to make everyone happy is by respecting them and blurting out spam warning is kind of as bad as spamming itself I mean by saying that aren't you spamming as well? it's considered off topic, to make a person stop just redirect the conversation. respect the members and they will respect you if you want them to IM you of your errors then you do the same and IM them of their errors anyway your both right in this predicament.
My final words are this: Reapect eachother and be an example I'm 15 yet I don't blow out as much as this and I realize being older you have a high stress limit but try to control it here work out your issues over IM's and quite this fighting or your going to have a battle zone and a dead forum end of discussion, do you all want MMLS to die? answer here is no I don't think you do so stop encouraging it's death fighting only leads to more fighting work out among yourselves and don't make armies of members. Your both upset and I and everyone else can see that but you both need to calm down a little.
Yeah I know alot for a guy who has no idea what's going on but from what I can see your all guilty for continuing this argument just ease up and have fun and remember nothing is perfect you can try to stop spam fab but no matter how much you try your still going to get it so accept it. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything like I said it's my opinion but I'm sure others feel the same way, MMLS has turned into a placec of war it seems when it should be a place of fun and excitment for others. I may only be 15 but I know what I'm talking about being an administrator myself show a little more control and respect the rules that's all I have to say.
Ok my rant is done and like I said it's just my opinion so don't like attack me or nothing I just don't want to see MMLS turn into a graveyard of lost friendships.
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Post by SIMSteven on Nov 18, 2004 20:25:11 GMT -5
I don't know if it's just a mind trick or what, but those of you who behave differently towards the staff because we have fancy icons under our names seriously need to get over it. We're people. We'll ACTUALLY LISTEN TO YOU if there's a forum matter you want to bring up with us. But some of you just don't even try. That's absurd. And the very fact that we're trying to remain members and not just cold enforcers is the very reason why we HAVE such specific rules. For example, I as a member would like to see SIMSteven banned. I never liked the guy to begin with, and he's been rude to my friend fab to the point where he's felt the need to make a lengthy topic pouring out his emotions to the other members. But I can't ban somebody for absolutely backstabbing a fellow member and friend. So you see, the rules and rule-mindedness of the staff that SIM spends all his posting time whining about are actually keeping the staff from banning him out of personal spite. Ironic, right? (I'm taking stabs at SIM here, I realize. Perhaps that's unprofessional of me as a mod, but if SIM wants to be a turd on a forum where every post can be read by every member, he'd better be prepared for those members to react. That's exactly what I'm doing.) For the first part I thought it had to be specific, about something I had already done. I thought it was a problem with the boards themselves, and not something else. Hence, why I posted it in the actual forums. For the second part, I was half taking stabs at fab, half taking stabs at the rules. Usually, when my feelings dwell up like that, I blurt em, sleep on them and then explain things better later. BUT, when I do get in that mood, it's hard to stop. Just a fact about me. However, I DO take some restraint, and never name-call. I scorn the actions, not the person (because it's the actions that made me mad). (And on a side note: Why did you send me that blank PM called "Funny?" I know why, but why'd you do it?)
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Post by fAB on Nov 18, 2004 20:31:36 GMT -5
EEP! *stumbled into the wrong thread* er......not being on much I really shouldn't have a say in this but as a friend I'll give my opinion. *Ahem* Don't like attack me or nothing but I'm kinda taking both sides here, SIM your right fab has been going a little over the edge from what I have seen and you should try to relax more fab and have a little more fun that's what sites and forums are for if every forum and site tried to look the most proffessional we would all be robots and perfectionists. I have a question for you fab what did you make MMLS for? was it for fun and the pleasure of being a loyal fan? or was it because you wanted to have the best Megaman site ever by making it proffesional looking? I originally thought you did it as a loyal fan and as a way to have fun and meet friends. Now moving on to the other side fab you are also correct, Sim you could have just IMed him his error and talked it out over IM's instead of saying his error outloud and I know he's been saying stuff outloud as well but be the bigger person. fab you seem to be going through a rough time in life as it seems from what I can understand from the way you posted in an angry type tone and I know what it's like considering I just got over a rough time in my life as well and am just recovering from it but the way to make everyone happy is by respecting them and blurting out spam warning is kind of as bad as spamming itself I mean by saying that aren't you spamming as well? it's considered off topic, to make a person stop just redirect the conversation. respect the members and they will respect you if you want them to IM you of your errors then you do the same and IM them of their errors anyway your both right in this predicament. My final words are this: Reapect eachother and be an example I'm 15 yet I don't blow out as much as this and I realize being older you have a high stress limit but try to control it here work out your issues over IM's and quite this fighting or your going to have a battle zone and a dead forum end of discussion, do you all want MMLS to die? answer here is no I don't think you do so stop encouraging it's death fighting only leads to more fighting work out among yourselves and don't make armies of members. Your both upset and I and everyone else can see that but you both need to calm down a little. Yeah I know alot for a guy who has no idea what's going on but from what I can see your all guilty for continuing this argument just ease up and have fun and remember nothing is perfect you can try to stop spam fab but no matter how much you try your still going to get it so accept it. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything like I said it's my opinion but I'm sure others feel the same way, MMLS has turned into a placec of war it seems when it should be a place of fun and excitment for others. I may only be 15 but I know what I'm talking about being an administrator myself show a little more control and respect the rules that's all I have to say. Ok my rant is done and like I said it's just my opinion so don't like attack me or nothing I just don't want to see MMLS turn into a graveyard of lost friendships. I'm not really in the right frame of mind to take all of that in, and might not be for a few days... One thing I am prepared to comment on though is the matter of sticking the SPAM warning in the post itself. SIM also mentioned it, and yes, I can understand where you're both coming from on that. Perhaps it is in everyone's best interest if we change our policy there. I do however want to say why that has been the way we do it. First off, it marks the post so that the member we PM can look at it and know exactly which post it is (in the event that someone has posted numerous times in the same thread). It also gives them a reason to do something about it. If we just PM them, they can ignore it (believe me some of them claim innocence every time). If it's in their post and they want to get rid of it, then it makes them go deal with the fact head on. Finally, there's the angle that when a post is marked as a SPAM post, it means that another member will identify it as such, not respond to it, nor point it out. So as you see, it does serve a purpose, but as I said, in light of the recent comments, we may change policy on it- and other issues as well. We do indeed want to get things happy around here again, and if that takes changes, we'll at least try.
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Post by Daisuke on Nov 18, 2004 20:39:54 GMT -5
That's all I'm saying is for you to consider it, it may be a good thing for the other members but it kinda shames the person who did it as well I don't know maybe I'm just weird or somethin or just don't make sense but that's the way i see it.
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