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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 27, 2004 21:32:17 GMT -5
Mods are looking at posts that AREN'T spam and calling them spam. Just look, GunMercis just got a SPAM warning for arguing with the mods. That's not SPAM, that's speaking his mind and standing up for himself.
I got a SPAM warning for doing off-topic posting. That's not SPAM either, it's off-topic posting.
Maybe a clear explanation of SPAM is in order. SPAM is "stupid, pointless, annoying messages." It has to be all three, or it's not SPAM. If someone wants to continue a conversation that someone already ingited, it's not a pointless post, and therefore, not SPAM.
From my point of view, the mods are overusing their powers in deleting posts that they think are SPAM, but are not. What I see it abuse/overuse of power, rather than restraint.
Furthermore, I've been told that I've been SPAMMING lately, but I don't recal making stupid, pointless, annoying messages. Now I bet I can't find my old posts because they got deleted, but I know what my posting style is, and I know that I haven't been spamming. Care to give examples, mods?
So what I'm saying is that I think the mods have too much power, are uneducated on what REAL spam is, and try to overenforce their authority. (Well, I do have one mod that I like, but that person will go nameless for a while.)
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Post by feldinaut on Dec 27, 2004 21:49:26 GMT -5
Mods are looking at posts that AREN'T spam and calling them spam. Just look, GunMercis just got a SPAM warning for arguing with the mods. That's not SPAM, that's speaking his mind and standing up for himself. SIM, I don't know why you refuse to ignore me on this, no matter how many times I post it. Maybe you've got bad vision, I don't know. Will a bigger font size help? GunMecris was SPAM warned for double posting after he had been told not to and was not warned for any other reason. Now, SIM. Double posting is SPAM. And so is off-topic posting. Don't believe me? Check the rules. Welcome to MMLS. Here, off-topic posts are SPAM. Double-posts are SPAM. Your idea of SPAM happens to be different from SPAM as defined by the MMLS rules. Your idea of SPAM also happens to be entirely your opinion. The way SPAM is defined in the rules is the way it is here. Is that definition of SPAM up for debate? As always, we are open to member-suggested changes in the rules. But, SIM, you have not suggested. You've just preached your opinion to us as if it were fact. But it is not fact. It is opinion.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Dec 27, 2004 22:25:11 GMT -5
SIMSteven, on that Gunmecris example I went back and read that thread to see what all the commotion was about, and quite frankly Gunmecris is you without a brain. You both have points, but your message gets skewered between being defensive, and questions of whether it's a personal problem, or what. However, in your case, I can see where the sense of injustice comes from, but like I said the Administration is in the right here, by however small a margin, and that's the fact. I'm not going to tell you what to do, but your posts aren't as mind numbingly imbecilic as Gun McStupid over there. I'm not even going into it here, all I'll say is that when I read that part where he double posted, and Feldinaut modified it, then he double posted AGAIN I had a good laugh, that fool must have had two bowls of malt-o-freaking-idiot that morning.
The thing is I can see why SIMSteven is... upset, but what is fab talking about? He doesn't think we're in a mess does he? Feldinaut? PharoahMan? fab?
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Dec 27, 2004 22:31:56 GMT -5
… Well, it seems the time for flinging feces at one another has come to an end and a semi-logical discussion might now emerge. Well, scratch that… I need to write faster. Things seemed so peaceful for a while… I guess it’s time I made up for my absence and threw in my 2/4 of ½ of a cent…
Personally, I don’t think the rules are all that absurd. I don’t want to be in a thread reading some groups conversation about the color of their toast or the how school was or how long until across controls the ignorant masses or how old you are compared to MM. Sure, some people have fun with such things, but mindless drivel of that sorts simply serves to annoy me, and possibly others. The rules for getting off track, as I understand them, say that it is okay so long as everyone ends up getting off track… that didn’t come out right… I’ll use an example then.
Remember BM 1-3’s “Who should MM get” thread? We started talking about the subject and everything was just peachy keen, but we soon got off topic with the origins of MM. The origins of MM had little to do with who MM should end up with, but we ended up getting off track and discussing that and in a way it did relate to the topic. Of course, that threads change was little by little. If someone where to have just posted a theory on MM’s origins while the Roll > Tron debate (I’m biased, go away) was raging, that would have been off topic because there was no way to relate it to the topic. We, on the other hand, got off topic because of an ethical discussion about androids and humans, and then if MM was an android, and so on… I think I have confused myself once more… good for me… yes, the sugar intakes of this carbon based life form have far exceeded those of the normal advised human consumption resulting in a mild delirium…
Getting off topic can either help or hinder a thread. It all just depends, and it is a mods job to judge whether it helps or hinders and deal with it accordingly (yay, I almost made some sense).
It isn’t all that hard to stay on topic, and if you have a feeling that it may be off topic, it probably is. I’ve never seen much of a fine line as most posts here are at least a paragraph long, but for some I guess the issue is harder…
… I’m actually going to almost agree with SIMS here. I do think it would be nice to see fab show up for a little friendly chat now and then, and it certainly would help lessen the tensions between him a few members. Still, I’m sure he has a good reason, whether it be working on the site or a busy life. It does seem sad that out of the four staff members only GWPharoman52 seems to post regularly, but it is their choice whether to post or not. In short, it isn’t necessary to post a lot but it sure would be nice if the staff did (it does have benefits like improved relationships with members and you would look more like people and not mysterious figures whose only reason for existents is to stamp SPAM warnings everywhere and make rules like SIMS said. It’s only because you don’t post very often that some of the rules get blown out of proportion.
Think of it this way: You live away from your parents, but you visit once a week. The only thing is that during your trips the only thing you do is laundry and sleep. You spend no time with your family. Eventually, it would appear that your only purpose in visiting is to do laundry instead of visiting your family and furthermore that you could care less about your family. This may not be true, but it certainly would appear so to your family. That is what is basically happening here).
If a thread dies there is usually good reason. I already addressed the off topic thingy and my typing fingers are plotting mutiny as we speak so for my safety and yours I shall not go over that subject again. Of all the regularly posting members, only you seem to have a problem with the rules and oddly enough it would come at such a time. I suspect that there is more of vanity than justice in your words. As I said, a mod will judge if something helped or hindered. Since I’ve already gone and made an example for my other sections I might as well keep up with the tradition…
Alright, BM 1-3 goes and starts a thread about whether you liked Juno or not. In this thread, someone mentions Bob and George for some odd reason. If you then make a post about Bob and George, that is a bad off topic post. If someone were to post a claim that Juno was part of the elder system along with their opinion of Juno and you corrected him this would be more acceptable. What is the difference? In the bad, it ruins the original topic because it is ignored. Sure, conversation may go on but a possibly good thread has been sacrificed. If you must comment, make your post relevant first then add the comment at the bottom. If you just want to talk about Bob and George then make a thread about it.
I look at it as more of a discussion board. We don’t come here to eat milk and cookies while we socialize; we come here to talk about all things MML. If you like you tea and crumpets and pointless blather than good for you, just don’t think everyone else does too. Quite frankly, I could care less if you went out to eat last night or what presents you got or how much eggnog you drank and then regurgitated. I’ll be in my happy place so long as we have none of that and stay somewhat intelligent and focused. Need we mix ourselves with the ignorant masses?
… yes, you are different on other boards. An example is in order!
Ah yes, the side of SIMS that MMLS has never seen… the breezy naked side… oh the imagery… (and best of all that was completely uncalled for… ah, there are wet noodles of lashing in my near future) Anyways, I already discussed the board meaning so I’ll just leave this piece of SIMology to sit and stew and charbroil all by its self…
I don’t remember SIMS spamming either, but I don’t exactly keep up with such things. fab admitted that the warning may have not been deserved and was going to change it, at least until you stabbed him with that fork and jumpstarted this whole thing. Everybody makes mistakes and attacking them for it doesn’t go over very well.
All in all, I don’t want SIMS to be banned, but he sure is pushing his limits with the staff. If you have an issue with the rules it might be better to just discuss it over a PM or IM. Also, delighting in recent chaos and making cheap stabs doesn’t make for a mature persona. It isn’t nice to attack the boards because they represent the work of the staff. It’s basically an indirect stab at them.
As for fancharacters, I think they’re okay so long as they don’t posses god like qualities (immortality, constant regeneration, etc).
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Post by feldinaut on Dec 27, 2004 22:38:59 GMT -5
The thing is I can see why SIMSteven is... upset, but what is fab talking about? He doesn't think we're in a mess does he? Feldinaut? PharoahMan? fab? If you're referring to "the boards going downhill" nobody I know of but SIM thinks that. EDIT: Aww, I'm not a regular poster? I'll admit. I would like to post more. It's just hard for me to jump right in there. I'm a bit lazy about posting.
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Post by fAB on Dec 28, 2004 12:31:08 GMT -5
Wow, no credit or appreciation whatsoever from SIMSteven, even after everything I said we've done for him. Just more complaining and accusations, though, I guess I didn't really expect anything else. I certainly don't want this to be the case! I am not an overly proud person, I'll admit when I'm wrong, and back down in an argument quite readily if someone can show me I'm at fault. But this is not what I see... All I see is SIMSteven complaining about the strictness here. Yet no one else seems to have problems with the rules. Even the people who have been banned have said sorry and that they wouldn't break the rules again. Also odd how SIMSteven has loudly voiced this concern over the rules only when he's received SPAM Warnings. That doesn't strike me as someone who's trying to make the forums a better place, it sounds like complaints from someone who doesn't like being told he did something that broke the rules. I also hear complaints about this place going downhill and being no fun anymore, but again only from SIMSteven... Not only that, but if you look through this thread, it proves that most of SIMSteven's arguments are not valid at all, and that he gets everything wrong. As has already been pointed out to him, he's wrong about spelling and grammar, wrong about the GunMecris incident, etc. And the simple fact remains, no matter what the origin of message boards, each forum has its own acceptance level of how it runs itself. The Rules and Guidelines thread makes it very clear what the acceptance level is at MMLS Forums. SIMSteven is the "uneducated" one here. Bottom line is, I've listened to the members' comments, I've made rule adjustments accordingly, but I'm not going to change the whole place because one person isn't happy with it. Like I said earlier in this thread, you want MLU, go to MLU. This place is MMLS, and as far as I can tell, is doing very well how it is, thank you. Anyone doesn't like it has the right to question, suggest and complain, but within reason. You SIMSteven, over-stepped the line long ago. So you have 3 choices from now on: 1. Leave quietly since you don't like this so-called "downhill" thing we have going on here. 2. Accept this place for what it is, as the other members do, and have fun. 3. Continue your irrelevant arguments and mod-bashing, and be banned, because not only do we have plenty of grounds on which to ban you, but also because my patience has reached its limits and I'm tired of you carrying on. I've got enough miseries in my life, without letting them run loose in the one place where I have the ability to rid myself of them with the click of a button. As for being friends... A real friend wouldn't automatically assume he has the right to be a mod here, and complain when others are chosen instead. A real friend wouldn't disapprovingly question me about those mod choices as if I were crazy to make them. A real friend wouldn't insinuate that the judges of the caption contest (SuperDanny and myself) are biased. A real friend wouldn't badmouth me behind my back in a thread I wasn't keeping a close eye on. A real friend would see what a headache he's been to me, apologize, and be grateful that I haven't banned him when I had all the right and reason in the world to do so... No indeed, it's been sometime since I've considered you a friend of mine SIM. Quite sad, because we once got along pretty well... If you choose choice 2 from up above, that's great. As much as I'd be happy to be rid of the headaches you've caused me, I really would hate to lose a member who's been with us for so long. And if we could ever consider each other friends again someday, that would be marvelous. To all of you out there concerning my lacking presence here, believe me I'd love to post more. However as admin, my foremost responsibility is to keep the forums running smoothly. Posting is a plus if I have time, but as many of you know I don't. It also puts a sour taste in your mouth to be a staff member, to come to the forums and always be faced with all of its issues, big or small. There have been some great new members who have joined lately though, and I certainly want to get to know them better. I agree I need to get here more often and will try to do so, I disagree that the absense of a single member, admin or not, can bring the whole place down...
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Post by PharaohManXe54 on Dec 28, 2004 14:35:44 GMT -5
Here here!
SIMSteven, you want an example of SPAMing? Well, do you remember a certain post you made in the caption contest that didn't contain a caption? It just was a response to a caption. Well, you obviously don't remember. You post consisted on one really pointless stupid question. I believe it was something like "At that exact point?" I deleted it along with BM1-3's above it that also commented on the same caption and also didn't contain a caption. I decided not to send you a SPAM warning because we thought that you haven't done anything in a long time. This is why we put SPAM warnings in the post in question. When you get SPAMed warned, then we can show you what you've done wrong. That's why the rules are like what they are!
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 28, 2004 16:51:32 GMT -5
Ok, so this place has a "zero tolerance" policy for spam, even when it's not spam. I get it.
You know, I thought that this place would allow SOME spam or rule-breaking as long as it wasn't happening too often. But I guess I was wrong. It seems you can't spam without getting modded or yelled at in some shape or form.
I was thinking that it spam could be tolerated at times and let go, but apparently not. That's why I say it's too strict.
To PharohMan: All I did was ask a question about something the guy mentioned, and yet I get modded for it. Talk about strict. I just wanted my curiosity clarified, but noooo...... "Zero tolerance!"
Anyways, just drop it. You know how I feel. Apparently, I forgot this place has to have everyone stay on topic at all times. No leniency.......
(Shoulda told me that BEFORE I went and blew up....)
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Post by fAB on Dec 28, 2004 17:59:50 GMT -5
SIMSteven once again ignores everything that's said to him, grabs one item, and twists it to make himself sound like he's the victim (yes he did, by saying he got modded for it). And of course after he thinks he's gotten the last word, says to drop it. HOW TYPICAL! So you have 3 choices from now on: 1. Leave quietly since you don't like this so-called "downhill" thing we have going on here. 2. Accept this place for what it is, as the other members do, and have fun. 3. Continue your irrelevant arguments and mod-bashing, and be banned, because not only do we have plenty of grounds on which to ban you, but also because my patience has reached its limits and I'm tired of you carrying on. I've got enough miseries in my life, without letting them run loose in the one place where I have the ability to rid myself of them with the click of a button. Not this time, SIM. I'm the one who said to drop it, as in not another word about it. It was your last chance, your final warning. You chose to ignore it, and once again spoke badly of these forums and the staff, falsely stating how things are done around here. So, goodbye, and good riddance. -------------------- I don't think anyone here can blame me, I gave him a million chances, but just for the record I'd like everyone to know a few things. SIMSteven, who has complained more about the "unfairness" of our rules and regulations was given more lenience here than I would give anyone, because: A. He was once a good friend -- Wrong of me as an admin to act that way, but just imagine what would have happened if I hadn't! B. He's a very proud person -- Even when we were friends I knew that the less you cross him or correct him, the better. C. He's respected in the community -- As a mod of MLU, etc., to ban such a person would (and now will) create waves in the water. D. I grew tired of hearing his complaints -- Yeah, when you're not looking forward to banning someone, you avoid problems with them. -------------------- Now, if anyone else has any valid rule change suggestions for this topic, please let us hear them.
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Dec 28, 2004 20:37:37 GMT -5
(Three sections here, 1 SIMS – 2 Fan Characters – 3 about temp. ban lengths and the survivor thread) Well, I didn’t want to see it happen but at the same time I can’t blame you. You did give him enough chances and this time I would say that it was an argument about hurt pride than strict rules. I don’t see why it had to become such a big thing especially since it all started because SIMS was mad about getting a SPAM warned title. Oh well, maybe SIMS will learn to keep himself under control. Being corrected is embarrassing and humiliating, but if we refuse to allow ourselves to be corrected then we would be nothing more than a bunch of egotistical idiots who refuse to learn from anyone or anything. It is simply part of life, and to make such a big deal over it was a mistake from the beginning. Last time he had a few valid points, but this time it was nothing but an act of revenge for hurting his pride. Had this been brought up under just circumstances instead of those of vanity I would probably complain about the ban, but because of the fact that this arose out of anger for being SPAM warned and how the rules applied to him and not about the actual rules as they apply to the board as a whole I can’t say much about it (if they were to strict then there would be more people than SIMS complaining about it). The part that was omitted from my last post due to that infernal 10k character limit…As for fancharacters, I think they’re okay so long as they don’t posses god like qualities (immortality, constant regeneration, etc). I HATE that kind of fancharacter, but so long as they are well explained (we do have an entire thread just for that you know) and fit into the Legends world than it is okay. Most FCs (fancharacters) either represent or are spawned from a certain trait of their creator. In other words, if you are prideful then your character may also have a big ego. They can also represent dreams, like say that the fancharacter is a good looking guy with muscles and money and basically everything and a cool name like Bureaucratic Model 1-3 to top everything off whereas the creator is a scrawny little runt who couldn’t get a girl if he paid her (though he should have known that monopoly money doesn’t work to well in the real world…). This isn’t always true though. Still, if you ban the characters it tends to hurt their creator though GM is taking this way out of hand and really annoying everyone (yes, even me). Just keep it reasonable and DON’T bring them back repeatedly. I turned him in to Barrel in a skin tight cheerleader outfit once, and I’m sure I can do it again (not to mention everyone else will as well… will as well… that sounds funny… I’m… not mentally sound right now…) In (not so) short, I’d say to just make sure your character is not an immortal character from some far off planet that served “the gods” who made him immortal and who has weapons that can do anything and a ship that can also do anything etc. Making such a character can and will anger those around you, not to mention make you look like an egotistical idiot. I think they should be legal, but once they’re dead/gone they’re gone. Never revive them without good reason… and most of all, give them a reasonable name. Maybe a mythological name or a foreign name, not something that looks like you pulled out a handful of scrabble pieces and put them together. It may not be a good idea to use them in the string story though as they will get killed off quickly, but in fanfics they come standard and can be killed off when you want them to… though they should try to be original (assassins with mysterious pasts don’t go over well unless explained… very well. A mysterious past usually means, “I’m too lazy to explain what happened, just plain don’t know and don’t care, or I’m stalling for time so I can think something up”). I can only wonder what kind of an invisible war GM and FG are fighting. So far, all but a couple of posts have been modded out from the assassin’s guild thread… Oh well, I’m rooting for FG… or else forks may “mysteriously” pierce my vital organs… (and please, for the love of all things… thingy, please just stop GunM. You’re doing the same things SIMS did (being so egotistical that you can’t just give up and say you’re sorry) and it could very well get you banned. Besides, FG isn’t very fun to fight with… you’d be dead very shortly… you’d be surprised how many ways you can kill somebody with simple household goods and food supplies. Well, moving on to other things and using this thread as it was meant to be used…The only thing I have to question about within the rule changes is the length of the ban. If you’re going to limit the ban, six months seems a little long. I’d have forgotten about this place after six months of being banned unless I came here every day. Maybe you could change the length based on the offense they were banned for, though most everyone is banned for SPAMing since most people don’t try to harass others or cause general chaos around the boards. Maybe the first ban would last a month, and if they haven’t learned after that you could have the six month ban, and then a permanent ban after that since they obviously haven’t learned a thing. Still, the last thing I’d want is for people like Ally to come back… on the plus side if she did she’d be banned within the hour considering how often she SPAMs. Lastly (though not really...), what’ll happen to the survivor thread without SIMS? I guess you could lock it, calculate the scores, record everything, delete the thread, and make a new survivor thread under someone else’s management with all the previous threads data carried over. I guess that could work, but who knows… it really isn’t all that important since it was becoming one big stale mate though it did provide me with some entertainment. And on another note, I understand that a lot of work must go on to keep the forums and the site running as well as they do, but it would be nice to see the staff around if you ever get the free time. If only there were some way to lessen the workload so you guys could be more active posters… oh well, Happy almost but not quite though some wish that it were even though it isn’t and of course it most certainly isn’t despite such wishes to the contrary of which I disregard since it isn’t but almost is and certainly will come within a few days though not a day too soon I can assure you most assuredly so as if anyone would say otherwise though in some countries it does happen at an earlier time though not here, not at all, not in the least, no it happens at the same time every year on the dot on the ball despite the haul and good ol’ Saul and now I’m really losing myself so… Year (Its times like this that fab probably wishes he had one of those ropes… yet another tiny reference to a certain series that nobody will get… )
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Post by bluerobotgirl on Dec 28, 2004 20:52:15 GMT -5
...I HATE that kind of fancharacter... You said it! **high-fives you** It's hard to make good fancharacters.... and prolly the first thing is to know when to say you've been beaten in a fight. Ya don't hafta kill 'em, but you do have to admit defeat.... As for SIM being banned, I really have no comment, since I haven't been around. But I guess there was a good reason behind fab's decision, so I suppose the right thing was done.
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Paragon
Ganburi
Has A Vebsite
I've been gone a long time, haven't I? :P
Posts: 536
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Post by Paragon on Dec 29, 2004 10:37:52 GMT -5
I never thought it possible. SIMSteven worked his way through to his custom title and gets banned. I'd expect this to happen to a lower-ranked member, but to someone with a custom title? I thought it could never happen.
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Post by JMC47 on Dec 29, 2004 12:11:16 GMT -5
though SIM earned is custom title, he also earned being banned, he let his pride get in the way of the forum, tried to come here and follow his own rules, and argued anything against him, even if there was proof against him. SIM was a good member, but he just kept pushing and pushing, and fab gave him a final warning, SIM ignored it, and here we are.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Dec 30, 2004 2:26:59 GMT -5
...like say that the fancharacter is a good looking guy with muscles and money and basically everything and a cool name like Bureaucratic Model 1-3 to top everything off whereas the creator is a scrawny little runt who couldn’t get a girl if he paid her (though he should have known that monopoly money doesn’t work to well in the real world…). This isn’t always... ... You know that was a very interesting statement, lets look at that again... ...like say that the fancharacter is a good looking guy with muscles and money and basically everything and a cool name like Bureaucratic Model 1-3 to top everything off whereas the creator is a scrawny little runt who couldn’t get a girl if he paid her (though he should have known that monopoly money doesn’t work to well in the real world…). This isn’t always... ... G.staff.Glyde, the options I have, why don't we all list some options? I'll start... - Hunt G.staff.Glyde down, and kill him like the dog he is...
- Hunt G.staff.Glyde down, and cyber kill him
- Hunt G.staff.Glyde down, and have him try to buy a girl off with Monopoly money, and if he can't, THEN kill him
- Hunt G.staff Glyde down, and- *I say we let him go...*-Let him go. WAIT A MINUTE! Who said that!
This discussion will be resumed after a brief mud war. * HA! I always knew you liked to suck muck, muck sucker!* Suck THIS! (BTW for the record, I seem to recall myself being able to do 50 push ups, so be careful who you be callen' a whelp... or, what was it? Runt... *puts rock in the next mud ball and heaves with infernal might*)
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Dec 30, 2004 15:16:00 GMT -5
Actually the character’s creator wasn’t referring to you Mr. Joe, only his imaginary character… but the fact that you thought differently is very interesting indeed… but for fear of receiving more impromptu death threats I shall refrain from analyzing the statement any further … Trying to keep this somewhat on track… ummm… well, we have a thread for RP discussion so no need to comment on that… well… Nothing much to say. The rules are good enough for me, the survivor thread is being resolved, and the SIMS issue is pretty much settled… Well, happy new year and… stuff
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