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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 5, 2004 21:34:02 GMT -5
Look, sorry bout what happened. I call it a "change in medication so I got real angry."
Believe you me, if my meds change, things can go for better or for worse. Usually, when I don't have the meds, I get really angry. I switched, and then switched back. Sorry....
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Post by fAB on Dec 26, 2004 19:16:52 GMT -5
Hope everyone had a nice Christmas! It's about time I got back to addressing everything that this thread represents: A growing disturbance in the flow of the forums, which had to be dealt with.
A lot came out of this ordeal, some good, some bad, but probably all necessary. When cleaning your room, you often have to start by making it a bigger mess before you can sort everything out. This thread did just that, by taking note of a problematic situation, and allowing everyone to comment on it. Naturally some tempers ran high throughout the whole thing, mine included. Feldinaut and I both agreed that we should let the dust settle before continuing. As it happens we've let it sit far too long, but with the new year we are going to be putting into effect some new rules and a few rule changes, which will prove we have heard the cries of the unhappy members, and that this thread did serve a purpose after all.
Changes SPAM Warnings will no longer be issued for posts of three words or less in "Welcome" threads. The purpose of this is to not spoil the mood for a newcomer. Sometimes people will simply want to say, "Welcome, have fun!", and it's the thought that counts.
SPAM Warnings will NOT be placed in an actual post if it is the person's first offense. Instead, they will receive a PM only, telling them where they went wrong, and to be careful in the future. Repeated offenses WILL warrant an in-post warning, because of reasons already posted in this thread, and because if they had listened to the PM they received for their first warning, they could have easily avoided the "humiliation", as some members call it.
New! We are going to be adding a new section to the Rules and Guidelines thread. The new section will be concerning ban. Basically, we are going to be adding a "second chance" system. When a member gets banned, instead of saying farewell forever, we're going to allow members back in after a certain amount of time- provided their conduct wasn't worthy of a permanent ban. To put things more into perspective, repeated SPAM Warnings leading to ban will kick the member out of the forums for a standard of 6 months. Still a good deal of time, but certainly better than forever. After the time is up, the person may request to have the ban lifted. There is only one condition which must be met, and that is that the person in question must not attempt to evade the ban and sneek back into the forums.
Remember, these changes and additions will be added to the official thread on January 1st, and take effect at that time. This thread will be locked at that time as well, so if anyone has any further comments, be sure to speak your mind before then.
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 26, 2004 23:55:27 GMT -5
How about CLEARING SPAM WARNINGS for people who've been good for a while?
I sent you a PM about my recent SPAM WARNING you know, I didn't think I'd get the SPAM WARNED title because I haven't done any SPAMMING for months. But yet I get it slapped on like nobody cares. I sent you a PM about the situation. And also, I think I've proven myself about being a good poster by getting as far as I have.
(Apperently, I got SPAM WARNED for bumping a topic that had a "new" post.)
Edit:
Also, I'm about ready to blow up again. Apperently, fab (yes you fab) doesn't have enough time to make a decent conversation or post like a good friend, but I came back the day after I make a post that gets me a "SPAM WARNING" and fab's already on my ass to get ready to ban me.
Look, fab, I know you have a hard time with your family, and I know you have a lot of projects to do, but where's your place for your friends? You CAN bypass your projects for a whole day and go through the boards once in a while. All I ever see of your posts is in the Caption Contest thread.
I'm sick of how THIS place has gone downhill. fab, you're sick of how MLU has gone downhill. Let's just call this a draw.
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Post by fAB on Dec 27, 2004 0:42:11 GMT -5
SIM, you expressed at one point that it was humiliating to you to have a SPAM Warning stuck in your post. Whether you realize it or not, I have been very careful about saving you "humiliation" by not bringing up your SPAM Warnings in public, in situations where it would have helped me make my point amidst the conflict. But, since you continue to bring such issues into the open like this, I'm rather forced to defend myself and my staff by coming right out and saying it.
IT HASN'T BEEN MONTHS SINCE YOU LAST SPAMMED!!!
That's right, it's just been months since you last received a warning for it. What does that mean? Remember when you suggested we be more lenient? Well guess what, we have been! We've deleted useless post after useless post from you, silently, not making a big deal out of it. Yes, we've been nice, and since we don't go giving you warnings, you never notice, do you? Nope, when at last you earn yourself another warning you think that you've been good as gold, and that we're all a bunch of jerks.
That PM you sent me... You probably won't believe it but, despite telling me how much I suck, your reasoning for the post that received a warning today sounded legitimate and I was about to remove the warning, and the SPAM Warned! title from under your name. Yes, really! But then I saw this, and you've always got to do this to us, don't you? It's obvious that you don't appreciate the pains we've gone to for you. Do you realize how much trouble I would have saved myself, if I hadn't been the nice guy back in November? Do you realize how much trouble I would have been spared if I had just banned you?
Once again you've managed to piss me off, so once again I'm going to sit on this new situation for a day or two and get back to you/it at that time.
Edit in response to SIM's edit:
Look, fab, I know you have a hard time with your family, and I know you have a lot of projects to do, but where's your place for your friends? You CAN bypass your projects for a whole day and go through the boards once in a while. All I ever see of your posts is in the Caption Contest thread.
I have posted several times, just not much, though I don't see what it matters one way or another. I haven't posted recently due to the fact that I've been busy and set aside everything to spend the entire last week working on Christmas presents for my best online friends. That's where the place for my friends is.
I'm sick of how THIS place has gone downhill. fab, you're sick of how MLU has gone downhill. Let's just call this a draw.
A draw? I honestly can't even understand what the heck you're trying to say... I expressed my distaste for what's happened to MLU earlier in this thread, but it has nothing to do with how I run this place. I don't see how MLU has to do with anything.
Signing off for the night, and as I said, I'll worry about this later...
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Paragon
Ganburi
Has A Vebsite
I've been gone a long time, haven't I? :P
Posts: 536
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Post by Paragon on Dec 27, 2004 0:55:22 GMT -5
Sorry, to jump in on this, but man, Tuttle, you sure can put alot on my imagination for you to be yelling. Also, I think you yelled a little too hard at SIM. Yeah, so what if he's mad? (I'm not) I was shocked too, imagining a person who got a custom title being switched to a SPAM warned! custom title after all these months/years. Really, I know you're mad that he's mad, but you shouldn't be that hard on him. Also, you being the admin and all, I think you should set a good example for these members by keeping your cool on your posts and quoting them out loud from wherever you are in whatever mood you were in when you posted. So, basically what I'm trying to say is that you should calm down a little, Tuttle. I just thought up a quote: "When yelled at, don't yell in your voice, but in your mind."
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 27, 2004 1:03:17 GMT -5
SIM, you expressed at one point that it was humiliating to you to have a SPAM Warning stuck in your post. Whether you realize it or not, I have been very careful about saving you "humiliation" by not bringing up your SPAM Warnings in public, in situations where it would have helped me make my point amidst the conflict. But, since you continue to bring such issues into the open like this, I'm rather forced to defend myself and my staff by coming right out and saying it. IT HASN'T BEEN MONTHS SINCE YOU LAST SPAMMED!!!That's right, it's just been months since you last received a warning for it. What does that mean? Remember when you suggested we be more lenient? Well guess what, we have been! We've deleted useless post after useless post from you, silently, not making a big deal out of it. Yes, we've been nice, and since we don't go giving you warnings, you never notice, do you? Nope, when at last you earn yourself another warning you think that you've been good as gold, and that we're all a bunch of jerks. That PM you sent me... You probably won't believe it but, despite telling me how much I suck, your reasoning for the post that received a warning today sounded legitimate and I was about to remove the warning, and the SPAM Warned! title from under your name. Yes, really! But then I saw this, and you've always got to do this to us, don't you? It's obvious that you don't appreciate the pains we've gone to for you. Do you realize how much trouble I would have saved myself, if I hadn't been the nice guy back in November? Do you realize how much trouble I would have been spared if I had just banned you? And here you go. Getting angry. Instead of trying to take care of YOUR problem of being too strict, you go and get angry. Based on what I've done recently, I don't consider anything I've done recently worthy of being "SPAM." Off-topic posting should not, and should never be classified in the same category as "SPAM." It's called "conversation based on what a previous poster said." Sure, I've done off-topic posting, but not "SPAM." My posts weren't "useless" or "less that 4 words." They kept the conversation going, and that's what the whole point a of a message board is. And about your "professional" message board. That's an oxymoron. No message board can be totally "professional" and force "professionalism" upon its members. "Bad grammar?" Good grief, you'll get modded because of that! "Off-topic posting?" That is soooo totally "unprofessional" and you get modded for that too. "Bumping old topics?" Hey, maybe I didn't have anything to say before, and I do now. Ever consider that? Or maybe there was problems with proboards that led me to think that the topic had a new post that was for someone who left? Or maybe you consider a topic that's 15 days old to be "old?" Get off your soapbox and actually allow "unprofessionalism." I hate having to watch every single post I make in fear of it getting deleted or getting a SPAM warning. I hate having mods breathe over my neck because I'm being "unprofessional." I hate having to post in such a stuck-up environement where people care more about posts than content. Once again you've managed to piss me off, so once again I'm going to sit on this new situation for a day or two and get back to you/it at that time. And you the same to me. You've pissed me off for caring more about rules than members. All I've seen lately is a lot about rules an nothing about frienship. You CAN take some time off from projects. You CAN come in and talk to friends. But nooooooooo... all I see is rules, rules rules. That and the occational welcome post. You've grown quite distant and don't seem to care much about having a good time anymore. You're not my friend anymore until you can prove it. Rules are good and all, but not when they rule everything that happens in a community.
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Paragon
Ganburi
Has A Vebsite
I've been gone a long time, haven't I? :P
Posts: 536
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Post by Paragon on Dec 27, 2004 1:10:01 GMT -5
Jeez, SIM, you really like to read over my posts, don't ya? That post you just made was a BIG mistake. If you had taken the time to read my post, you might not have been one step closer to a ban. Please read my post and delete yours. What I mean is, what I said to fab/Tuttle now I'm saying to you.
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Post by JMC47 on Dec 27, 2004 1:41:46 GMT -5
SIM, your a good member and all, but your one of those people who speak their mind, which is usually a good aspect, but sometimes you have yp know when to keep your mouth shut. arguing with the administrator is not a good thing, unless your aiming to get banned. SIM, I don't want you banned, so please step down and avoid this battle, post how you usually post, don't worry about the warnings, if you get one spam warning in 100 posts, who cares, it is not going to get you banned.
On the friendship topic, friendship is good and all, but think about history class, what happened to Warren Harding, Ulysses S. Grant, their friends caused a whole lot of trouble that eventually came and bit them in the butt.
Friendship brings trust. I only trust a few members on this board, and less of that are what I would call friends. For example, I trust BM1-3, I've seem a lot of posts of his, and can expect what his posts will be before I read them, I can say the same about you SIM.
Newer members and members I dislike I don't trust, I don't know their style, so if they post numerous posts against me, or other members I respect, I will never trust them, or respect them.
If I was a mod, I would have to enforce the rules on friends or foes, it would be unfair to let a friend get away with something someone else wouldn't, maybe thats the problem at MMLU.
One other thing, I don't really think fab has to post all the time, and be conversational, you don't know how much time a 3D project takes. He also has 2 websites to work on, launch the dratches on the main gate, it just takes a lot of time, and I'm sure he'll post more as soon as he finishes one or two projects.
SIMSteven, please to not be mad at me for disagreeing with you, these are my personal views, and maybe I'm wrong, but I had to post after reading the updates.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Dec 27, 2004 2:49:22 GMT -5
Where to begin...
Paragon, you're giving yourself WAY to much credit, SIMSteven isn't angry because of your post, or his SPAM warning, however mad that may have made him. Read this whole thread and maybe you can see what I'm talking about.
SIMSteven usually I'd be with JMC on this whole, 'Don't punk the Administrator around, cause you can't win,' thing, but quite frankly you're super imposing what you think into your post and it's just wrong. If somebody told me I had to spend more time on the forum I say that they were acting like a wife, not a friend. I disappear for days at a time, for more reason than one, and unless I feel like explaining myself its nobodies business. Quite frankly fab has a life outside of this, so do we all, even you, and if you think you don't... well, I'm guessing you're mad right now, not entirely pathetic, so I won't go there.
As for the SPAM thing, I see how that worked out perfectly. It didn't belong, and apparently fab saw the default, but don't bite the hand that feeds you, for the love of it! My sister pulled the same thing, she needed a ride, I didn't want to do it, but I was going to, then she tried to go over my head, and she ended up bumming a ride off a friend. One of the things I like about both sites is that I don't have to kiss anybody anywhere, and that's the way I live my life. Stop acting like its any other way.
I don't see how you think this forum is going downhill, I've looked MLU over time and time again, and they have a lot more fools over there than you'd think. I'm one of maybe five people that takes pride in my posts, 1-4 word answers suck and you know it, hence the one liner threads turning into slop and eventually, through the utter lamentation of Ally, Tenshi, and Amandpunk, you lock it. Over there you people, BRG especially, say 'stop SPAMing' like the little girls you are, and nobody wants to do anything about it. Yeah she's gonna get angry, and leave, and everybody's gonna die. No offense BRG, but if I left either site, the first month nobody would notice, the second nobody would care and the third, I would have been completely forgotten. Now don't get me wrong, Supper Danny is a great guy, but he couldn't dominate for... stuff... This isn't the time or place to swear. You all have to many friend, and not enough spine, they're walking all over you. You yourself should know what it's like when little crybabies get their way, general member.
Whereas you mock this place for trying to be too professional, but really I think that, with little exception, this place is very professional. I'm probably the biggest wackjob here, and that's just sad. Over here if somebody posts something foolish, or dumb the thread dies, everybody, meaning ME, included. Over at MLU it's just painful to see a lot of these dumb, dumb, awful threads get a ton of posts just because you guys are all buddies. We're all friends over here, but it's non obligatio'.
BTW, I don't talk about my family for a reason, if you were talking about my life like that only the conceivable distance between us would stop me from tearing your throat out and drinking your blood with some wine cooler. Plus I wouldn't get paid, and that's no good…
Don't think I hate you SIMSteven, but you're giving fab a hard time, and while I'm not 100% on the 'yay fab' shebang, he's taken a lot of… guff, for little or no reward, so suck it up, and as… childishly phrased as it may be, unless we all want trouble, lets use our indoor voices, that's what this thread is for… P.S. Don't close it unless it's done, and it's not done yet.
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Paragon
Ganburi
Has A Vebsite
I've been gone a long time, haven't I? :P
Posts: 536
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Post by Paragon on Dec 27, 2004 2:59:15 GMT -5
What you talkin' 'bout Jacko? Listen, I just said to SIM that he didn't notice my post telling him and fab to calm down for a second.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Dec 27, 2004 3:07:13 GMT -5
Jacko? Jacko!
...
*Shrugs*
I'm referring to the previous thirty messages, in which fab and SIMSteven have more than one little conflicts, and that explains why they're mad, AND why they're not going to just calm down.
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Post by PharaohManXe54 on Dec 27, 2004 9:55:52 GMT -5
SIMSteven: Believe me, fab is right: this isn't the first time you SPAMed in months. I alone had to delete 2 of your posts and the other mods have deleted some others of yours too. Fab is right again, we have been way more lenient. Instead of calling everyone to see your "shame," we're just deleting SPAM posts and not mentioning another word about it. Our general rule is if it's a newer member who posted some SPAM and it's generally more then 5 words but it's way off topic and no one has responded to it, then we'll delete it and move on with our lives.
I hate having to watch every single post I make in fear of it getting deleted or getting a SPAM warning. Well, how about this general, common sense rule "If you can't post anything competent, THEN DON'T POST ANYTHING AT ALL!!!" I don't think anyone else here feels that way other then you. You say that fab cares more about post counts then friends? Well I say that you do. SPAM should definately not go into post counts. Just follow the general rule proposed above and your posts will be fine.
As for the professional aspect, I think that keeps a lot of people coming here. "Bad grammar?" Good grief, you'll get modded because of that! Believe me, I'm tempted sometimes, but no, you won't. We just think that it's easier for some people to read if you're just more concientious with your posts instead of just typing randomly. This isn't an IM so you can't just ask "What did you just type?" right away, so try to make it so that people can understand you.
And guess what? IT'S FAB'S BOARD! HE CAN DO WHATEVER HE WANTS WITH IT! And I think he's going the right way. He's trying to make it better for ALL of us.
Paragon: Please, don't comment when you know nothing about the situation. You've been here for less then a month. I could understand if you read this entire thread, but you obviously don't know that this is the venting topic.
As for the new rules, thumbs up! They're really good. See, some of these very rules were suggested by you guys in this very thread! I would just like to suggest one more: no crossovers in story threads/ RP threads (if we have them). You can see all of the commotion in "The String Story" thread. This doesn't mean just other video game/ movie/ comic book characters, this means no new random characters can't just appear making everyone say "Huh?" This just makes everything flow better.
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Post by feldinaut on Dec 27, 2004 13:35:37 GMT -5
Okay, I've really only skimmed the topic, but a few key things: 1. SIM, nobody has ever been modded for bad grammar. Ever. And I believe I've said that before, in this very topic. Where are you getting this notion from? 2. I've got to say SIM, the only reason fab lashed back at you is because you yelled first. And maybe fab didn't handle his response correctly, but at least he realized that and kept it open. I realize you were very angry. Rightly so, too. I know that topic you posted in looked bumped because Tenshi2 had come back and posted in it, but after I deleted all of her posts, the topic was left looking bumped when it actually hadn't been posted in for weeks. That wasn't meant to be a bait and switch kind of deal. But if you feel you have a valid defense, please present it calmly. It will REALLY help your case. 3. No member really has a right to tell another when they've posted enough or not. Telling fab he NEEDS to post more in order for this to be a good message board is kind of whack since basically everyone is okay with that but you. That really ISN'T a valid argument, and you need to stop throwing that kind of crap in your posts whenever you feel wronged. You're throwing that in on top of the real issues and cluttering your messages up. And you say you don't like feeling like your posts are all being carefully watched for SPAM? How do you think fab feels knowing that you're keeping HIS posting habits under your careful watch? 4. Paragon: BAD PEANUT GALLERY! SHOO! SHOO! NO TABLE SCRAPS FOR YOU! Bottom Line: SIM, as stated before, we listen to our members. Seriously. But you've never really given us the chance to. Whenever you're unsatisfied about something, instead of discussing it with us, you either talk about it behind the staff's back or blow up about it...or both. I think fab is less angry about the fact that you're disputing your warning than he is about the way you personally attacked him over your SPAM warning. This is a serious thing, yes, but please don't make it even more so by dragging in what are basically irrelevant issues. EDIT: Also, regarding your suggestion, PharoahMan... Although I'm all for those rules (I hate fan characters ), that kind of decision would have to be left up to the topic creators. In the RP board, I always imagined we would have some RPs that allowed fan characters for those who wanted them and some without for those who didn't. But again, that would have to be decided by whomever was in charge of the RP board, and would probably be discussed by the members beforehand.
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Post by SIMSteven on Dec 27, 2004 14:21:11 GMT -5
Listen, people, I said it before, but it obviously got missed. I don't recall SPAMMING to the point of my posts being called "SPAM." Sure, I've done some off-topic posting but that's not SPAM.
I've been on message boards before, but I've never had such trouble with the rules. It looks I have to clear something up about boards that seems to have been forgotten here. It all goes back to what the main function of a board is.
A board is for a "conversation." Basically a board is just a step up from an instant messanger, although a little more formal and each message has a little more ooph than a instant messenger. I come here and always have the fear that when I try to start or keep a conversation going, that I'd get modded.
So what if a topic gets off-topid? At least the conversation is still going. So what if a topic gets bumped? The conversation still goes on. And yet, it's a breaking of the rules if these things happen. Those rules hinder conversations, and I don't see why they are rules.
Also, about the "fab posting more" deal. If it were any other member, I wouldn't care much. But the admin? What good is a message board if the admin doesn't really show his face unless he needs to lay down the law? And admin should converse with his members more than just running threads or welcoming members. Otherwise, he appears to be a manager who you can never really become a good friend because you consider him a "boss." The way I've seen him go lately is more in the "boss" direction and less in the "friend" direction. That's why I say that this place is going downhill. I don't like a place where mods and admins don't appear to like a good conversation and instead usually show their faces to law down the law.
There's a fine line between SPAM and constructive posting. It just that I feel that when I try to stir up conversation (and constructive posting) that I might get modded because it gets confused with SPAM.
I'd have to say that as long as someone can say something about a post that gets made, it's not SPAM. However, if a post it completely one-sided, it's SPAM because no one really can say anything about it. As long as something can be said about a post (other than the fact it's SPAM), the conversation continues and the message board still remains what it's supposed to be.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Dec 27, 2004 21:18:54 GMT -5
I don't know why everybody thinks this forum is going down hill.
How is this different from any time in MMLS?
Aside from this, and the string story thread?
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