The Elder System

[Reaverguy Rises]

I have a bad memory but didn't they mention something called the Elder System at the end? And did they say what it is exactley? I need to take another look at the end. It seemed that Yuna was quite concerned about it.

[pitch]

It's not really the Elder System, it's the elder System. The System that preceded the current one. One that would require monitoring, which would be Sera's job. It's not necessarily a bad thing, it's just Sera's needed to watch over it - hence she can't let herself die. At least that's my take. I don't think it will pose any major threats to Carbonity. Sera was almost happy about it.

[Reaverguy Rises]

Thanks, that explains a lot. I guess is=f Sera died it would go mad.

[pitch]

There're supposedly beings referred to as the elders with machines of some sort as well. Yuna says these come from the ruins(I think so anyway). Reaverbots, perhaps? Prototype Anthro Units? Not sure...

[Santa Melty]

An interesting thing to bring up. The elder System was mentioned, yes, but my guess is that it was just everything that preceded the Carbons. The System had to have been managed somehow, correct? Though their exact intentions are not known, the people of the System (Or the elder System, from the time standpoint of Legends) were trying to create life of some kind. They started with the Reaverbots and the Prototype Anthro Units. Though we aren’t really sure what those are either. Truthfully, my first impression was that the PAUs were the Reaverbots, though with everyone else seeming so unsure about it, I myself have lost confidence in that theory. I’m thinking that the transition from the elder System to the current, untitled System was when the Carbons were made. Seems like it would fit. After the Master had that glorious revelation and decided to scratch everything he’d done up until that point in favor of going with the Carbons, there must have been some major changes to the system itself. That is where I think the transition took place.

Interestingly enough, if this was so, it probably meant that he didn’t have a lot of time to change much around before he died. The ruins are undisputable remnants of the elder System, whatever it may have been. It most certainly wasn’t meant to be part of the Carbons’ world. Furthermore, all of the ruins are underground. And instead of clearing all of these out, they apparently just drowned the whole mess with an enormous ocean and let the Carbons seek out life on whatever dots of land they come across. Perhaps the Master was just trying to make life hard on them, so they could enjoy life’s many splendors, as was his philosophy in Trigger’s flashback. I think he could have done more then that though. Baffling. But that’s beside the point, isn’t it?


The Elders, I assume, were those that helped run the system, with the Master heading them. Or at least, he was really high up there in the ranks, though I’d assume anyone they call “The Master” would be somewhere in the vicinity of Head Honcho.

I’m sorry to say, I haven’t played through either of the games in a year or so, so I can’t provide any decent evidence or otherwise somewhat-thought-out speculations. However, I’m sure there are more clues about it in the series; it’s just a matter of finding them. Foreshadowing, hinting... something. There was a ton of that about various things, so there must be something about the system’s past muddled in there. Mayhaps I shall check the transcripts later.


As far as things outside of Legends, I’ve heard some thinking along the lines that the elder System relates back to the X/Zero series (and now, possibly, that new platformer coming out), since all of the Megaman series are supposedly linked together in one gigantic megalith of a story. But since that has yet to evolve to the point where any clear link is easily visible, I wouldn’t look too much into it yet.

[GSG]

Oh MAN. Whenever I think about this system stuff my head blows.

My theory may seem kind of off from another person's perspective, but I would be interested to see what you thought.

After scan-reading transcripts and playing the game, this is my guess of how the Elder System came about:

I'm guessing that the Master and all the other humans that populated Terra in the beginning were actually humans, in that they evolved instead of being created. The Master mentioned things like "war" and "strife", so my best guess is that as the human's knowledge of technology expanded, they used to their advantage and created the reaverbots to fight when at war with other countries. The enormous maze of underwater tunnels would explain how the reaverbots got from A to B.

So wars would happen. Yadda yadda. Now, judging by what Yuna says about the CRP:

"The Carbon Reinitialization Program was
meant to be run only after the Master and all other humans have died."

This makes me think that there would've had to have been a catastrophe, where most of the human race was wiped out for the Master to have felt the need to reset them all as modified carbons. He wouldn't have had the heart to otherwise. I like to think that there was a massive war and the reaverbots ended up slaughtering everyone.

So then the Master cloned all the humans and modified them slightly, imprisoned the reaverbots the humans made underground, and built a satellite to monitor Terra and all of it's goings-on.

Then he made the Master System...didn't like it in the end...you know the story.
So my guess is that when the Elder System starts activating again, instead of staying underground and only attacking people who enter the ruins, they will surface and start attacking the carbons at random.

I'm not sure. This is kind of a splurge of thoughts, so it might sound a bit strange. If you find any holes in it please tell me. I don't want to be in the dark.

[Santa Melty]

Actually, looking back, there are some things that don't seem to fit... Not just with your theory, but with this whole System business.

Just to start, all of the original humans lived on Elysium. And according to Yuna:

(What is Elysium?): Elysium is a perfect world, created by the Ancients
thousands of years ago. A world of eternal youth...A world without disease,
hunger, or war. Sera and I are androids with positronic brains built to
watch over and manage that world. We called "Mother Units." You are a
Purifier Unit, built to seek out and eliminate Aberrant Units--units that
malfunctioned and threatened the System. Don't you remember?

Hard to make anything of it, but I’m assuming that all the humans were on Elysium. Or at least, they were once they got nearer to the end of the Master’s time. Which is also odd, since it is supposed to be a place of eternal youth. Yuna could have exaggerated a bit on that point, but then, the Master certainly didn’t look very old in the flashback, and he didn’t seem to be on his deathbed, so to speak. So, the reason of the Master’s death comes into question. But the point is that if they were in this supposedly perfect place, with no war or disease, then they would not need the reinitialization program to destroy some enemy, as you stated. The only ones on Terra at the time of the Master’s final days were the Carbons and the reaverbots left underground, and I see no motive as to why we would want it all destroyed after he was gone. It doesn’t seem to make sense. One thing we can be almost positive about was that the Master wanted the Carbons to live. That was the reason he made them. If he was expecting some catastrophe, why do something as anti-productive as blast the population into oblivion? Even if some Carbons or humans were regenerated after that, how would they live after whatever happened had happened? Seems like it would be more effective to build something to protect the Carbons rather than destroy them.

As to the reinitialization program itself, Juno threatened Kattelox with reinitialization. According to Juno, the program was meant as simply a means of population control, not as something to wipe out all life and then restart with a few clones... And since Juno could do this, we can assume that the System also has similar programs that they periodically run on other islands.

This seems to contradict what Yuna says about it. I’m assuming that she’s referring to the big one up on Elysium that is supposed to reinitialize the entire planet, but if the program was intended as some sort of control device, then why was it meant to be run only after all of the original humans have passed? And, in fact, why was it there at all? You may have a point with that bit about it replacing the Carbons after the program, but why with Carbon copies of the original humans? The Carbons were made to mimic the humans to some extent, but if the Master simply intended to have them all wiped out so that the people of the System could live again, why have them at all? The whole thing seems skewed.



All the same, it is an interesting theory that you came up with, but I don’t think it could have worked. The only time I recall the master mentioning strife, war, suffering, and all of the stuff along that line was when he was explaining to Trigger why the Carbons were such wonderful organisms, and how all of these troubles they had that the humans didn’t meant that they could appreciate life more than he or anyone else of Elysium could. This implies that it had been like this for a very, very long time there, as the Prototype Anthro Units were supposedly the idea of superior life that preceded the Carbons. Even back then, they were trying to come up with something that could represent live better than themselves. Since they were so busy coming up with all of this, they must not have had many problems of their own. If there was some great catastrophe or war involving the humans, it was way back before even the elder System. Also, it is possible that they were using the tunnels as a means of travel, but I don’t believe there was any evidence of that in the game. We should have seen something... perhaps one of the ruins in Legends 2 connecting to one on another island. But that never happened. Even that small, mid-ocean ruin that you begin in with the first Legends is just a miniscule, isolated dot on the map. We were able to explore the whole thing, and we found nothing that could have linked to any other ruin. All of the ruins seem to connect to each other within their own district (Or at least, they did on Kattelox), but none seem to connect with anything beyond that. Besides that, the ruins were part of the elder System, along with the PAUs, and by then, the humans were already up on Elysium.

But feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted something or got something wrong. I’m not completely awake at the moment.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



But this is getting way too confusing. So, I shall attempt to summarize my thoughts. *cracks knuckles*

Please hold the throwing of all fruit until I finish.

The humans created the System, and eventually found themselves living on Elysium, in their own war/disease/hunger/crisis-free world. They then decided to create some other form of life to carry on after they are gone, since for some reason, they couldn’t live forever, reproduce, or whatever it was that killed off their race. They began their work with Terra, and the Prototype Anthro Units. The Prototype Anthro Units supposedly lived in those sub-cities, as we saw on Kattelox (though the only things that seemed to be there were the reaverbots, which is why I first thought that the reaverbots were the units). The ruins were meant to be the part of all of this that managed everything, hence how the refractors were kept in the ruins, probably to provide power to everything, and how the terminal that opened the sub-cities was itself inside the ruins as well. The reinitialization program, both the one on Elysium and in Eden, were instated as an added security measure to make sure that nothing went wrong. Or rather, that if anything did happen to go wrong, it wouldn’t exist for very long. The keys to the library, where the big program could be activated from, required the 4 keys on Terra. Thus, in order to activate it, both mother units were supposed to have consented to it; Yuna would get the Keys, and Sera would use them to activate the program. The Edens also provided a way for the different districts on Terra to store and share information. Juno’s backup data, for example, was stored on Eden. Juno would have just been replaced if Data hadn’t marked him as an aberrant to the System. Finally, the whole thing was wrapped up with the creation of the various other units. The bureaucrats managed, the servitors served, and purifiers and reaverbots provided basic maintenance and patrols, and the mother units made sure all of this was working as it should. This was the elder System.

Then, one day, the Master decided that all of this was wrong, and instead created the Carbons. He had not intended the ruins and elder System to become so intertwined in the Carbon’s society, but it did. He was still in the middle of working on this when he died; he did not have enough time to make all of the changes that he wished. One major change he wished for was the complete deactivation of the elder System. I only just recalled this bit now, but he did in fact plant his genes in Trigger. Trigger is the last remaining human, and it was the Master’s intent for him to complete the task of deactivating the System. Then the Master died, and Sera, still stuck back in the thinking of the elder System, fought with Trigger. Yuna had them both imprisoned, and thus we enter the days of Legends.

The total Carbon reinitialization program was not intended to be activated until after the humans were gone, which could have been for any number of reasons, though I assume that it was because any problem incurred while the humans and Master were still alive could have been used to better the system. If there was a problem, they probably felt capable of fixing it themselves, and they undoubtedly didn’t want it being activated while they were working down on Terra or something. They were intending the System they left after they died to be totally self-supporting. They were saving the final reinitialization for something completely out of their hands. But that is, of course, mere conjecture.



Please feel free to toss your fruit.

[GSG]

Wow.

*Tosses fruit, but nice fruit*

That theory is completely different to mine. It seems to make a lot of sense though, apart from a couple of things. I don't think I understood all of what you were trying to say in your last post, but bear with me.

I don't know, I'd always imagined that the humans did live on Terra, until something happened (like I said in my last post). Being one of the humans, I'd think that this was very distressing for the Master. If he were to start over, I could understand why he would want to create the Elysium System - so that the beings he created would not have to go through the same suffering as he did. But I think he cloned all the dead humans, before he started making the Anthro Units, as a way of starting afresh. As (modified) humans, they wouldn't have a strict purpose and designation as did all beings of the System. They would be free to spend their short life spans how they chose.

But this time, the Master would be watching over them, to make sure nothing went wrong like in his time. Then he'd create the Anthro Units to assist him.

Personally, I'd always imagined treasure was sealed in the ruins as a kind of challenge and population control method on it's own...in order to have power and money, Diggers would have to descend into the depths of the planet, and many of them would lose their lives down there. But in balance to these threatening caverns, life on the surface of Terra was pleasant. Blue skies, lush green fields, and with such a small population the Carbons would have to work together in order to live happily, and that they did.

The one problem I found with your theory is this: You say that the humans created the elder system, and shortly after they were wiped out. But here's a quote from Yuna at the end of MML2:

"Now that Elysium is no longer functioning, the old System the Master's people shut down has started to reactivate."

This implies that the Elder system was something pretty separate from the Master's creations, and something that posed as a threat to the humans, and consequently the humans managed to temporarily shut it down. I don't really see how your theory matches with that, but maybe I'm just being blind...^_^;

Again, I'm just typing away in a flurry of thoughts. Stop me if I start arguing with blaringly-obvious true facts.

[Reaverguy Rises]

WARNING! LONG POST!

My belief was very much the same as GessellschaftGal:

I believe that many years in the past their were the original human beings. However, they had a planet other than Terra. Near the end of time a huge war had come and wiped out all of humanity except the master. This possibley was Earth in the future. Not to long before the war Elysium was built. The Master was more than likely a genius that helped create it, probally the master mind, looking at how well he took control. The other were to busy fighting most possibley for control over it, to enter Elysium. He created Terra like God created Earth. Also he created carbons(clones of the original humans) and sent them down to Terra. New people were possibally created do to different relationship. He sent the reaverbots down (not a creation of his own but of his people) to guard refractors, but even more importantly, to guard the four keys.

After Terra but before the carbons and reavebots, Yuna and Sera were created to guard things. They maybe original creations and not clones. He also created Geetz and Gatz to assist them. Megaman also was created, somewhere after the Mother Units, before or after Geetz or Gaatz. He was created inorder to help keep all units below him under control, eliminate any disturbances that were of major threat, and guard the Master. I believe Megaman was a clone of the Master best friend. THis would explain how close they are. I believe Megaman was the only purifier.

Going on thafter all this the bureacratic units were created to keep the population under control. For each island,country, or possibley continent, exist a bureacratic unit. Another major purpose of the reaverbots were to protect these. The mother units and purfier unit would make sure he did his job right.

Ofcourse we all know how things turned out.

Going to back to the Elder System, it was done locked from humanity too the end of the true humans existence. My first theory is it is something similar to the reaverbots, but much more powerful and capable of mass destruction. Possibley helping wipe out humanity. This theory ends or weakens my belief of their being a planet that the Anctients were on other than Terra, why worry about something off of Terra? Unless they could have some connection with Elysium and attack it. Or possibley could track down Terra.

My second theory doesn't have as much affect on the possibility anoher planet came before Terra. That the Elder System was a group of peopl, rebels or a strond political group, that did alot of harm. It seems they could be smarter and more easily travely. It politacal, they quite possibley beheld somthing like what I spoke of in thery one. Whichever theory it was I'd think the Master was against it.

Another possibility for Terra was it was in works and finished right before the end of days or finished after only the Master lived. This could both sovle there being another planet before hand and both theories being a threat to Terra. They could of had some data or known about it, malking it seem possible for them to travel there.

There is something flawed probally in this theory and there is often more than one, but tah is my say on it. Some reading helped me realize stuff and modify my theories.

[Santa Melty]

@__@

I missed that bit Yuna said. *explodes*

I see what you are trying to say now. Let me try again. >_>


I tried running through all of the transcripts again, and pulled up several things of interest. Of course, this just means that I found some answers and got more questions. I propose a completely new theory. Your idea makes sense, but it does not seem to explain everything. For example, the humans originally made the System, so what reason did they have to deactivate it? Also, after it was shut down, it was Sera’s duty to monitor it. Elysium and the elder System that was shut down, that is. According to Yuna, when Elysium shut down, the elder system began to reactivate. This implies that Elysium was constructed to suppress this System, as well as serve as the world on which the humans lived. Yet, the Master lived on Elysium, and used the System to serve himself. The purpose of the system was to serve the Master, as Sera said. And Elysium itself has always been assumed to be a major part of the System. It doesn’t make sense that they would just toss it all away. It’s that one line that Yuna says about the Master’s people deactivating the system that seems to throw a very large wrench into the clockwork.


*looks through a couple of pages of game quotes*

(What is Elysium?): Elysium is a perfect world, created by the Ancients thousands of years ago. A world of eternal youth...A world without disease, hunger, or war. Sera and I are androids with positronic brains built to watch over and manage that world. We called "Mother Units." You are a Purifier Unit, built to seek out and eliminate Aberrant Units--units that malfunctioned and threatened the System. Don't you remember?

Sera: Do not forget, the Master is the only true human remaining. The System exists only to protect and serve the Master. We exist for this and only this purpose.

Yuna: Don't think you're going to get off that easily, Sera! You were always too stubborn for your own good! If you had a shell, you could transfer your primary programs over, right? Gatts is dead, he died because of your gamble! If you die as well, who will be left to keep me company? You can't fool me, I know you can hear me! Still going to ignore me, then let me tell you something! Now that Elysium is no longer functioning, the old System the Master's people shut down has started to reactivate. It was your responsibility to monitor it. If you die, and it takes over, the Master's work was for nothing! Do you want that?

Yuna: Sera is in charge of Elysium System, I was in charge of Terra System. My, official designation was Mother.

Master: Listen. To the sounds of every day life. The sounds of city life. The smell, of evening meals being prepared. All this and more we in Elysium have lost. Thank you, MegaMan. Thanks to you, I have finally been able to experience this for myself. For 3,000 years, I have been free from hardship and pain. A life of luxury and ease obeying my heart's desires. Seeing these people, grateful for the simple joys of life, I wonder, was I truly happy? I have made up my mind, MegaMan. Carry out, my final command. I want you to destroy the System. I realize now that we were wrong. Correct my mistake. Make things, right again.
Master (handing a card-like device to MegaMan): This is, a good luck charm. As long as you have it, no one can stop or harm you. Return to Elysium. Delete all data from the Library, you understand? Please, MegaMan.

Sera: When you destroyed your original shell, I became the only Mother Unit for this System. I am within the Master System Parameters. Fairness is irrelevant!

(First conversation only): This is the Library, where Sera is waiting for you. The Library contains the genetic code of the humans who built the Master System. It's up to you, MegaMan--do you obey the System, or destroy it?

The humans built Elysium, and some time after, they died and ended up with their genes backed up in the library. According to Yuna, the system was deactivated long ago by the humans. Yet, according to the Master, the system was still going strong up until he died. According to Sera, there is only one System, yet according to Yuna, there is both a Terra system and an Elysium System. Furthermore, if Elysium is a place of eternal youth, then how did the humans die? They must have either left Elysium or been killed. Yuna also said that both she and Sera were made to watch over the world of the Ancients; Elysium. So, what was Terra’s purpose, and how the heck do the Prototype Anthro Units and carbons fit into all of this?

And then there are the things that just don’t fit anywhere, like the significance of the Master’s genetic sample. Sera half seems to want it destroyed, and half seems to have wanted it for something.


Right, now, just ignore everything I've said up to this point. ;

How about this idea? Everything started with people living on Terra. Elysium was originally created by a group of humans. Just a group. Perhaps some people that wanted that perfect world in Elysium. Or maybe it was a world domination conspiracy. It wouldn’t matter, but whatever it was, the population was divided into two factions: those with the System they were creating, and those against it. The Master was originally against it; hence, Yuna says that he and his people went and had it deactivated. Of course, the Master wasn’t the Master back then. Maybe he was just some leading reformist or something. I don’t know. Anyway, after this, the two sides struck up a bargain. The Master and those against the system would take everything over and run things how they like, using the System that was already build by this time. Meanwhile, the people who created the System would have their genetic samples stored in the library. After the rest of the humans were done living their lives, and when they eventually all died out, the reinitialization program would be activated, and the ones who originally made the System would be cloned back into existence, and they could have that perfect, untainted world that they wanted. The Master was set up so that he could oversee all of this, and he became the Master. The units helped to serve him while he was still in this position.

A long time later, the humans died out, for whatever reason. Be it disaster, war, or some combination of the two. But the Master, living on Elysium all this time in order to keep tabs on everything, was still there. He was the only one left. Then we hit a loophole: the reinitialization couldn’t take place until all humans, including the Master, were gone. Thus, the units of the System were at a kind of standstill, and continued serving him until he decided to do something. But instead of going and having himself killed, he went and kept living, toying with the system as he went. Who knows why. Maybe he wasn’t ready to die yet, or he decided to stay alive for a bit longer on some kind of quest for enlightenment. In any case, he tried creating life for himself. It started with the Prototype Anthro Units, based off of the now uninhabited Terra. Elysium was now evided into two Systems; Terra and Elysium, with the original Master System above them both. He set them all up, and used the System to make an entire society out of it. Of course, these units were all more machine than human, so it didn’t do much for him. He eventually moved on to the Carbons, with those Beta units that were mentioned somewhere in-between. This is when he changed his mind and decided that the entire System business was wrong. And he had plenty of reason to be confident in his decision; he was over 3000 years old and had lived on both Terra and Elysium. If he didn’t know what should be done, then who did? But as per his agreement, he wasn’t able to destroy the System or clear the data of its creators. So, he went down to Terra and let himself die, passing his thoughts down to Trigger, whom he told to go destroy the System for him, before it could kill all of his precious carbons. Trigger tried to do this, but was stopped by the two mother units of the System, Yuna and Sera. Yuna eventually changed her mind on the matter, and Sera fought Trigger, ending in how the game starts.


The Master’s genetic code is still a mystery though... but if we follow this line of thinking, it probably could have been used by the other units to identify him as the Master, and prevented most of the lesser units from attacking him while he chose to use it. The game only even mentioned Sera and Yuna turning against Trigger when they fought, which would make sense, since they are smart enough to tell that he clearly is not the Master and is just trying to destroy the System. They respected the Master, as he was an actual human, but Trigger was just a unit pretending to be the Master using the sample. And of course, the System itself would also take it that the Master was still there, and would not be able to reinitialize. Sera was unaware that Trigger downloaded the genetic sample to Data after their fight, which is why she kept hitting him up for it.

Why she made it any sort of priority to obtain the Master’s genetic sample for herself was anyone’s guess. I guess she had grown attached to him or something. She does say herself that she had always tried to please the Master while he was there but was never able to. Perhaps she just wanted to clone him for the heck of it and ask him about what he did. I don’t think the genetic sample was ever decently explained anywhere.


That is probably the most farfetched thing I’ve ever come up with, and I'm sure that I've tripped over my own reasoning several times, but it seems to explain everything... What do you think?

[GSG]

That actually makes a lot of sense. Personally, my theory of why the Master's genetic sample was so important is this.

Sera said it herself; as far as she's concerned, her and all the other units on Elysium exist only to serve the Master. The procedure is as follows: when the humans and the Master die, the CRP is activated. The humans can be cloned based on the information stored in the Library, but it would be in the interest of the Elysium System units to clone the Master also, therefore giving them a continued sense of purpose. It looks like the Master's genetic sample was not stored in the Library, but on the Master himself. So when he gave Trigger his genetic sample, he added:

"This is, a good luck charm. As long as you have it, no one can stop or harm you."

So this implies that his sample was very important to the members of the Elysium System, and his theory was that while Trigger was in possession of something that invaluable no unit could do any serious damage to him, in fear of also damaging the Master's sample.

But yes, that was a very all-encompassing theory there, mltmlt22. Just let me get one thing straight - the Elder System Yuna refers to at the end of MML2 is, in your explanation, the original System that was made and then de-activated by the Master and the other humans that followed his beliefs. The only thing is, you suggested the original group of humans built Elysium in order to create a perfect world. But at the end of MML2, the discussion between Sera and Yuna would lead you to believe that, if this original System did reactivate, it would do great damage to life on Terra.

Also, I like the idea of an agreement between the humans, but if, as you say, the group of humans that originally created Elysium wanted to create a perfect world on there, then I don't see how it being controlled by the Master's people would have changed it much. Seems to me that if in fact Terra was split into two ideals, the plans of the creators of Elysium would have been far more radical, and in some way posed a threat to mankind.

[Reaverguy Rises]

Yes, I agree about the master.

I also am led to believe that the Elder System IS the orignal Elysium. However mistakes happend, turning it into a major threat to mankind. Being incharge of Elysium, it only makes sense that she must carry the burden of making sure the original stay locked away from the carbon.

What if the Master wasn't really the last. What if the elder system imprisons another one or other. Maybe they were against the idea and took fait with barbairic hands. They could possibley lead to the destruction of all. Being ancient, and the only one living for that matter, they may now also be the most intelligent lifeforms. However, if they could fix up Elysium, the Master could be brought back with the genetic code and having so much power, nearly that of a god, could bring them down. All his gained and anciant knowledge is valuable. Another reason for the gentic code.

[Shift]

Just a few thoughts:
Maybe Elysium wasn't created by a group of humans, but instead something else from one of the previous series, and was simply re-discovered by the humans, and used as some-what of a "utopia". As far as the A.P units go, I have an idea myself. mltmlt22, your assumption of the A.P units being reaverbots may not be incorrect. They may have just been a second form of reaverbots, that turned out completely wrong in some way or another. Whether if be some sort of malfunction or mishap, they were isolated from the rest of everyone else, and confined within the Sub-Cities, as some sort of imprisonment. Another thought is that the Master unit didn't just die of old age. For a human to live for over 3,000 years is quite a strange belief, and as you said mltmlt22, he didn't seem as if he were in any sort of bad condition. My thoughts are that he had a purpose in dying. That in doing so, Trigger would shut down the elder System, thus having to confront Sera who belived strongly in the System's orders, and having to defeat her. The Master may have had a lot of confidence in Trigger, and assumed that he would defeat her, making them come to some-what of a stand-still, and cooperate as they once did before, as Mother unit and Purifier unit. One last thing, when it comes to ranking, I feel that the Purifier units shouldn't be classified as the same as reaverbots. I think that they deserve a higher rank, but one right below that of the Mother units. This would explain why Sera was so jealous of a Purifier unit (Trigger), that is of a lower rank than her, having the ability to relate to the Master so well, where as she, a mother unit, could not.

Well, there's my two-cents. Sorry everyone else, I just skimmed through this whole thread, but I'll be back tomorrow to post more. Oh, and I've a question. This has probably been raised before, but if anyone knows, where exactly does the door (large door right passed the elevator you must enter to re-fight all of the ruins bosses) lead to? Was this explained, and did I just miss something? Or is it as much of a mystery to you as it is to me? It looks awfully similar to that of the door you enter to fight Juno in Legends 1. Could there possibly be another unit with the same mentality as Juno?

Well anyway, I'll be back to post more tomorrow. I really enjoy this thread, interesting topic. But I'm still confused as to how the hell Data got back to Terra from Elysium.. They probably won't ever cover that up, just to bug me. Bastards...

[Reaverguy Rises]

Maybe he left at the last moment with out the others.

Yes, I to wonder of the door. But no, I believe something far greater lies ahead of it than Juno.

Yeah, I too think that Megaman is a lot higher ranking than the reaverbots. Right under the mother units.

Maybe the A.P. Units are like reaverbot titans. They could possibley lead to mass destruction.

It would be awesome if the made a game based on the events before the death of humanity.

[Shift]

They'd probably just finish up the storyline, and make the transition with a story or cinematic thing, as opposed to a game, but that would be cool..

Oh, and as for the "door", Pitch and I talked about it for a while. Turns out it's that big monitor that the Master uses to watch over Terra.

legends-station.com/mml2/guides.php

Kind of a buzz-kill... I was expecting something more.. exciting. But hey, I'm expecting too much from this game.