Devillock
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Post by Devillock on Jun 19, 2012 15:25:32 GMT -5
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jX1oHZUkcU#t=05m09sI haven't played much of Megaman Legends 2, because I got it in 2007 and by that time, I passed Megaman Legends 1 50 or so times. Getting to my point, in the link of the video from 05:10 to 06:00 Yuna and Sera mention the Elders, the elder system and their machines and if they awoke (A system that the Master's People shut down) and that would be devastating for the carbons. Who are the elders, are the reaverbots their machines or are there some more capable mechanical humanoids? From the 1st game I came to the conclusion that reaverbots were self-aware holon machines with artificial intelligence. Seeing Juno for the 1st time, I was confused for he was a hybrid of carbon and reaverbot, who confused me even further by saying that Volnutt was similar to him by referring to him as a 'model'. Playing 'The Misadventures of Tron Bonne' two years later I met the Colossus (something I became obsessed with in the previous week or so). He was somewhat of a holon based machine, but knowing on how refractors produced energy, I was somewhat confused as to how the tri-fractor (called Golden Refractor) functioned, did it split in to three parts and the individually rotated or the entire piece rotate? Although it's a holon machine with characteristics of a reaverbot (the face especially), no detail was given as to is it self-aware and if it's self-acting, since it had a control panel in its head. At the ending of Megaman Legends 2, the link of the YouTube clip I wrote at the beginning of this article, there was a mention of the elders activating. Since Megaman Legends 1 the games feed us information that reaverbots are slowly activating themselves, and that's being repeated at the very end of MML2, but we hear a new phrase: The Elders. Maybe I'm not connecting the right dots but perhaps the Colossus was a machine built for the elders themselves (weather they are human-like or mecha-like) for them to reign control and order over the reaverbots. Before the 'carbons' were created, there lived only a 'nation' if mechanical beings, that's why they are created in likeness to all sorts of animals and perhaps the elders kept them in check, being the most intelligent. Now they were put to sleep for the next generation of beings to be created on top of them, being more intelligent and self-aware and that is the carbon species. If the elders were to awake and find out that there are species dominating the surface, they might see that as a threat and reign chaos on them with their mechanical colossal reaverbot machines. I'm hopeful that there are tons more mechanical giants for each elder to mount and ride. I'd like to expand this topic by getting your opinions and ideas on this, this could very well wind up as a script for MML3 or some other project 
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Post by Loken on Jun 19, 2012 15:55:23 GMT -5
Well as to who the Elders are, there really is no way of telling but I think they are reploid type things since they have been so long dormant. The Master system seems like a rival or successor to the Elder system and is headed by the last true human so the Elder could have been or are humans. As to the Reavers I'm not too sure since they seem to guard the master system. Juno was art of the master system as well so I don't really see how the reavers are related, it's possible they aren't. You do bring up a good point with the colossus but even though he has control he looks like a reaver. I'm actually thinking that the Master system is a more humane (  ) successor to the Elder system and that perhaps after the Master system is deactivated the Elder system retakes control of the reavers. I mean the reavers are obviously still active after MML2 as evidenced by the little we saw of MML3. I'm glad you posted this thread. I like getting into these lore discussions and seeing what everyone thinks about them! |
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SketchMan3
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That's "SketchMan3". Capital S, capital M and the number 3. It's official (nicknames are ok, though)
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Post by SketchMan3 on Jun 19, 2012 17:32:16 GMT -5
I always thought the "reawakened" elders would be humans cloned of the master's dna.
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Devillock
Zakobon
Official MMLEx Modeler
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Post by Devillock on Jun 19, 2012 19:29:20 GMT -5
Well as to who the Elders are, there really is no way of telling but I think they are reploid type things... This might be weird but besides Megaman 4 and Megaman X6, MML1, 2 and MoTB, I haven't played other Megaman games, and the Legends series is the one that is close to my heart. Taking its story into consideration and no solid link to the past that I've read online, the Megaman Knowledge Board says that the Legends Universe is thousands of years after the ZX universe. Except for the names and a few cameo character appearances, I don't think that the Legends Universe belongs in the same one as Megaman, X, ZX and all of those who are incredibly intertwined and make sense with each other as a vast network of stories, characters and events (which I've yet to find out really ;D) (I smell a new topic with a great potential for debate :0C:) Not much info has been given on the Elder system, so all we could do is take wild guesses. Yuna said that the master system was shut down by the master's people shut down. I'm thinking it was created by the humans, ones like The Master (I'm still skeptical about the fact that he is human but if they say so...) back in the days where there were more of them. ...and right up to here I forgot what I was thinking :33: Damn it... |
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Post by Pitch on Jun 19, 2012 20:33:32 GMT -5
Megaman Knowledge Board says that the Legends Universe is thousands of years after the ZX universe. Except for the names and a few cameo character appearances, I don't think that the Legends Universe belongs in the same one as Megaman, X, ZX and all of those who are incredibly intertwined and make sense with each other as a vast network of stories, characters and events (which I've yet to find out really ;D) (I smell a new topic with a great potential for debate :0C:) The Legends series is thousands of years after ZX, yes. (And definitely in the same timeline.) It's also thousands of years long by itself. ( SPOILER;˙sǝıp ʎןןɐuıɟ ǝɥ uǝɥʍ pןo sɹɐǝʎ 000'3 ɹǝʌo sı ɹǝʇsɐɯ ǝɥʇ) The actual events that lead into the creation of the Elder system could very well be immediately after ZX and Legends would still be thousands of years in the future. In fact, the folks at IntiCreates (creators of the ZX and Zero series) drew several connections between the series, starting with "Project Heaven" in the first ZX game, different "MegaMans," the concept of "Masters" (plural) in ZX Advent, and ultimately, this little hidden ending too, seems like a direct tie-in. MASSIVE MegaMan ZX Spoilers
But, what you ultimately have to realize is that, even if ZX is the connection to the Elder system, it wasn't a planned connection. When they wrote the plot for MegaMan Legends 2, MegaMan ZX did not exist. Neither did even the Zero series. And prior to MegaMan ZX's being announced (or prior to the Zero series' ending), people mostly assumed that Neo Arcadia, from the Zero series would ultimately become the Elder system (or something along those lines), because of the little nods and references there. And prior to that we had this half-assed connection from MegaMan X5 (SPOILERS)! (Although, technically that still could've connected Legends with the Zero series. And most people chose to ignore that ending all together, anyway— it's pretty bad.) The short answer is there is no answer. If they ever had a plan, they've long since abandoned it by now. If they ever get around to writing another ZX game, they might very well choose to ignore that special ending from ZX Advent. (Like the MegaMan X5 ending was ignored.) They might insert another MegaMan series between ZX and Legends, further complicating matters. (Like with Zero and ZX series.) Whatever it is, they're making it up as they go along. Over at Rockman PM forums, Zan posted a really nice (spoiler filled) summary of everything we know about the MegaMan Legends series in "chronological" order. (It's in the right order, but we have no idea when it all actually is, except relative to itself.) Might be worth it to examine, if you like to make theories. |
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Post by Loken on Jun 19, 2012 21:08:44 GMT -5
That's an excellent timeline, although it doesn't deal with the ZX stuff.
If Legends 3 were to address the Elders it would probably be far different than what they had planned after MML2.
The Elder system isn't even mentioned until the end of MML2 and if they hadn't mention it then and if they weren't trapped on the moon we probably wouldn't be waiting for a sequel.
The truth is that we are speculating about a story arc that was to be tacked on just so there would be a reason for Legends 3
Even so it does interest me to think about what they had panned for the Elders to be, and how the Legends series is connected to the other games.
Pitch is absolutely right when he says they make it up as they go along, they have been since MM2! If they ever did explain the Legends origin fully and ended the series properly it would be the end of Megaman. Well besides superfluous prequels, and perhaps a new series about the after math of Legends! :06:
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2012 10:01:22 GMT -5
Loken: Zan actually has a timeline for each of the sub-series.
I personally believe that the elders are the people from the ZX era to before The Master became, well, The Master.
As for the Carbons, they are actually extremely advanced androids with organs (something that Zan had mentioned before in a forum). Same goes with Yuna, Sera and the other androids. That must mean that the line that had originally divided humans and Reploids had finally faded forever because of advanced technology.
That is why so many Carbons have bionics since their body won't reject them. Plus, that armour that Diggers wear? It's not actually armour, they actually swop their biological bodies with that. This is something that I found when exploring the Devroom. creepy, but true. It could also explain why they seem to have much higher endurance compared to an average human.
True, CAPCOM did make things up as they go along, but the ZX series did seem to clear some things about the Legends series that didn't make sense at first.
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Devillock
Zakobon
Official MMLEx Modeler
The lights on the walls will start flashing soon...
Posts: 108
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Post by Devillock on Jun 20, 2012 14:36:57 GMT -5
That armour that Diggers wear? It's not actually armour, they actually swop their biological bodies with that. This is something that I found when exploring the Devroom. You absolutely gotta link me to that :20:! |
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Post by Pitch on Jun 20, 2012 14:55:17 GMT -5
I personally believe that the elders are the people from the ZX era to before The Master became, well, The Master. As for the Carbons, they are actually extremely advanced androids with organs (something that Zan had mentioned before in a forum). Same goes with Yuna, Sera and the other androids. That must mean that the line that had originally divided humans and Reploids had finally faded forever because of advanced technology. Nothing wrong with accepting the ZX connection, as that's currently the best connection we have. Just remember everything can change and has changed in the past more than once, with regard to drawing connections between the series.. SPOILER; Also, considering Capcom's not all too happy with the ZX series, it may be all the more likely they won't use this connection for anything meaningful. Maybe.Incidentally, if you watch that secret ending from ZX Advent, you'll see they talk about the difference between humans and reploids disappearing, which suggests connections to MegaMan Legends. ( SPOILER; “Give Humans robotic bodies and give Reploids mortality,”(e.g., Carbons) keeping immortality for some reploids (e.g., Units(?)), etc.) Very similar to Carbons, probably, but we know the ones in the Legends era are a separate design. That armour that Diggers wear? It's not actually armour, they actually swop their biological bodies with that. This is something that I found when exploring the Devroom. You absolutely gotta link me to that :20:! Here it is, in what was probably the coolest update that came from the Devroom, when MegaMan Legends 3 was still in production. MegaMan Legends 3 was the first game in the series that seemed to emphasize this little fact about diggers' armor and bodily modifications and whatnot, but there was art that showed the idea long before. (We had a topic dedicated to this before Legends 3's announcement #NoNecroPostsPlz, and a sliiightly more recent thread that you can probably get away with bumping if you like.) For the record, my opinion is the same as it always has been, and the same thing you'll find in those threads.  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2012 8:03:43 GMT -5
Notice how MegaMan, Teisel and Glyde were wearing normal clothes and later wore armour?
The Carbons can actually switch between their organic bodies and the armour when they want to.
I don't even want to know where they store their organic bodies when they wear that armour.
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Post by Kyle on Jun 24, 2012 14:14:33 GMT -5
The Carbons can actually switch between their organic bodies and the armour when they want to. This never actually made any sense to me. Did they give any biological explanation as to why it's so easy to swap out 90% of their bodies? I can understand the replacement of your legs and arms, but it seems pretty difficult to remove a person's head from their torso without any complications. They still have vital organs, don't they? Think about it. During the opening of MML2, we clearly see Volnutt with a very human looking body. However, as soon as they land on Calinca, he's in his Digger armour. Does the Flutter have any sort of life-support facilities inside it? It doesn't really add up. The only explanation I can think of, is some sort of limb replacement scheme. Keeping the biological torso intact, but using artificial limbs elsewhere, much like Deus Ex's mechanical augmentations, or Full Metal Alchemist's Automail. Edit: I suppose you could argue that because the Energy Bottle refills Volnutt's health, his body must be mechanized while in Digger armour. However. Root Beer, Picnic Lunches, Fried Chicken - they all seem to have the same effect as well. So, unless his armour is amazing at breaking down substances and turning them into energy, I don't see his torso could be mechanized. Edit-Edit: Although, I don't think this applies to everybody wearing armour. Notice how MegaMan, Teisel and Glyde were wearing normal clothes and later wore armour? While I can accept the argument about Volnutt swapping out parts of his body, I don't think Teisel and/or Gylde have the same set-up. Shortly after the Gesellschaft exploded, Teisel commented about his arm breaking. Notice how he's holding it? It might be a sign of pain. If so, this presents two options. Either the armour connects to the central nervous system, or Teisel is just wearing an normal suit of armour that requires a changing room instead of a surgical table.  |
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Post by in·clover on Jun 24, 2012 14:27:17 GMT -5
It's a Megaman game, not an Arthur C. Clarke book. Physical improbabilities don't factor into it at all. The only thing that matters is that it's awesome. |
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Post by Loken on Jun 24, 2012 16:48:39 GMT -5
It's a Megaman game, not an Arthur C. Clarke book. Physical improbabilities don't factor into it at all. The only thing that matters is that it's awesome. Very true. And I agree with Steffie, it would be really weird if they had some kind of body closet. |
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SketchMan3
Poh
That's "SketchMan3". Capital S, capital M and the number 3. It's official (nicknames are ok, though)
Posts: 464
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Post by SketchMan3 on Jun 24, 2012 19:51:32 GMT -5
It's a Megaman game, not an Arthur C. Clarke book. Physical improbabilities don't factor into it at all. The only thing that matters is that it's awesome. Very true. And I agree with Steffie, it would be really weird if they had some kind of body closet. Now that you mention it, I vaguely remember Megaman having some kind of locker or chest in his room that... hmm... nevermind... In Megaman 8 extra lives are called "Spare bodies". lol |
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Post by Loken on Jun 24, 2012 20:05:13 GMT -5
I've been meaning to make a topic on this but I just havn't, but since 'theorys about reaverbots' is in the title I'll ask the question here.
Are the reavers evil or good? Are they simply protecting their home? or perhaps guarding the dark secrets that could destroy the world?
What's with the residential areas? Do the reavers live there or are they there to protect now extinct humans?
What do you think?
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