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Post by Buster Cannon on Apr 16, 2014 16:49:27 GMT -5
You've got to take into account the need for shorter, simpler games in Japan might come from the abundance of public transportation in their urban areas. Is that where these mobile games are mostly being played? I mean, I can't imagine playing a mobile game on anything but public transportation, or while waiting in a queue. I could see them looking at what's going on in Japan, but completely not taking into account how anyone outside of Japan plays games. They may also be trying to consolidate their gadgets to make things lighter? I dunno, I don't live there or anything. That's a pretty good point. I'm reminded of how arcade culture works; in the west, the trend of people leaving their homes to play games is dropping steadily thanks to online play, to the point that many arcades are dead or dying. With Japan you have a packed urban area full of people interacting frequently, so that 'on-the-go' mentality is strong. Mobile games fit into this lifestyle well because no matter where people are, they'll always be on their phones or portables playing something. In the west we have fads like Candy Crush and Angry Birds, but it's certainly nothing stable. Looking at it now, MML3's choice to be released on 3DS as opposed to console makes sense; the higher-ups probably figured that the game would sell to a higher number (at least in Japan) due to it being on a portable. The western crowd wasn't the happiest with the decision, but said decision more than likely wasn't made with this side of the globe as a major priority.
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Rockxas
Zakobon
Steel Spirit
Posts: 135
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Post by Rockxas on Apr 16, 2014 17:34:39 GMT -5
Those poor, misguided fellows. ;_____; Understanding different countries and cultures is not easy for everyone. To be clear I have nothing against mobile games, or games with microtransactions, just against mobile games that run on microtransactions. I guess it's kind of a nice concept that maybe you can get the game for free to try it out and then pay only for the content that you want (certain cars or costumes), but when they give you the game for free and you have to continuously pay for healing items or card packs it feels very much like a scam...
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Post by HF on Apr 16, 2014 18:32:07 GMT -5
Well...That could be troubling, but in the unlikeliness of that happening, who would the best bidder for the Mega Man IP? I can dream, right?The question is, can Capcom afford to just completely lose their western audience by not making anything but mobile games? Five years ago, when mobile might've not been so central to their design philosophy, Inafune said absolutely not. Fact is, we like their IPs here, and pushing everything to mobile isn't doing them any PR favors with the western gamer market. The casual crowd here doesn't really notice their IPs as a selling point so much. It's more a question of "do they want to even acknowledge the western audience at all?" It's not just them (Capcom), of course. On the flip-side, a number of Konami arcade ports (jubeat, Reflec Beat, Bishi-Bashi) which either staying in Japan or had a less-than-complete "Outside Japan" release has raised some complaints as well among the rest of SE Asia. Even if personally I would prefer to play those actual games at an arcade to feel the full and ever-renewing experience, I can relate to those who want a more convenient version for their use from the comfort of their own home. Sure, just let me have some time on that. That's a pretty good point. I'm reminded of how arcade culture works; in the west, the trend of people leaving their homes to play games is dropping steadily thanks to online play, to the point that many arcades are dead or dying. With Japan you have a packed urban area full of people interacting frequently, so that 'on-the-go' mentality is strong. Mobile games fit into this lifestyle well because no matter where people are, they'll always be on their phones or portables playing something. In the west we have fads like Candy Crush and Angry Birds, but it's certainly nothing stable. Angry Birds has the mascots that make them recognizable to the general public, especially among children. The game being free-to-play certainly helps show it off to a wide demographic. In the same vein, have we not been grown familiar with our beloved series from being exposed to it from a young age? Here is an interesting thought: Now that smartphones are affordable and common-place, will you be willing to play a free-to-play game on a smartphone if said game has a high skill ceiling*? * i.e. Good difficulty and learning curve, and assuming said game isn't luck-based and functions perfectly with its touchscreen of course.To be clear I have nothing against mobile games, or games with microtransactions, just against mobile games that run on microtransactions. I guess it's kind of a nice concept that maybe you can get the game for free to try it out and then pay only for the content that you want (certain cars or costumes), but when they give you the game for free and you have to continuously pay for healing items or card packs it feels very much like a scam... Like with any media, there is always the good and ugly side of things (as you described, commonly known as "Pay to Win"). But ultimately, making games is a business for a corporation. I can respect thatl it's still a better alternative to letting said companies we grew up with go under for lack of diversity (should a sudden shift in business potential happen on a greater scale than we are experiencing right now).
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Post by Dashe on Apr 16, 2014 18:40:04 GMT -5
Understanding different countries and cultures is not easy for everyone. To be clear I have nothing against mobile games, or games with microtransactions, just against mobile games that run on microtransactions. I guess it's kind of a nice concept that maybe you can get the game for free to try it out and then pay only for the content that you want (certain cars or costumes), but when they give you the game for free and you have to continuously pay for healing items or card packs it feels very much like a scam... I'd prefer a model where you pay for the game once and never get prompted to pay for it again unless you want to buy a bonus chapter or mission later, since you liked the content so much. It should be "make the game good enough that you want to pay extra to get more of it when the main game's finished."
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Post by Loken on Apr 16, 2014 19:00:36 GMT -5
Honestly Capcom wouldn't have to free-to-play or day-one dlc crap or any alternative pricing model. All they have to do is make good games. Not one game since Resident Evil 5 (and I guess the fighting games) has been worth a bucket of piss. I actually got excited about deep down but the more I see it the less interested I am. That's the finical burden, not being a good publisher anymore.
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Rockxas
Zakobon
Steel Spirit
Posts: 135
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Post by Rockxas on Apr 16, 2014 20:52:32 GMT -5
Like with any media, there is always the good and ugly side of things (as you described, commonly known as "Pay to Win"). But ultimately, making games is a business for a corporation. I can respect thatl it's still a better alternative to letting said companies we grew up with go under for lack of diversity (should a sudden shift in business potential happen on a greater scale than we are experiencing right now). Eh, I guess, if mobile ventures with microtransactions serve to fund better, more wholesome games... I'd prefer a model where you pay for the game once and never get prompted to pay for it again unless you want to buy a bonus chapter or mission later, since you liked the content so much. It should be "make the game good enough that you want to pay extra to get more of it when the main game's finished." I'm with you there, I prefer to pay once for a full game, and then maybe buy additional content. I was against DLC as well until Fire Emblem: Awakening. I rather liked having additional skills, classes and the Future Past storyline. I'm fine with DLC so long as it's not obviously held back from being part of the game solely to be sold by itself later.
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Post by Bean on Apr 17, 2014 4:33:35 GMT -5
Honestly, we're kind of in this transitional period for gaming right now. In Japan, console gaming is pretty much done for. Even the PS4 is struggling to find its footing there... to the point where it's doing worse than the Wii U was when it was launched (Granted, Wii U was around Christmas 2012 while the PS4 was Feb. 2014), but it's not just that.
Handheld gaming has also seen a huge downturn. When I saw that the 3DS was performing more poorly than the original DS, I knew something was wrong. Obviously the Vita is also a complete failure outside of its niche status in Japan. Mobile is taking over, but that said, I think a big part of that is that third-party companies like Capcom, Konami, and the like have all but killed the mid-tier game. Those sort of impulse buys just aren't there anymore, and I do miss companies like THQ or Factor 5 that delivered them.
DLC can be done right when it feels like it's totally worth it. For instance, I had more fun with the first GTA IV expansion pack DLC than I did with the main game. Others offer you post-game content and whatnot, and it works. But there are so many where it's $20 for map packs or costumes that it really feels like these companies are out to alienate the ever-recessing core audience. I personally think the PS4 is a fad due to gamers buying into Sony's message of being pro-gamers, but their lineup isn't exactly instilling me with confidence. I just don't think there's enough talent to keep producing these games at the rate they're doing them in, and Sony will have just as many issues as Nintendo in the near future due to third-parties looking more into the mobile sector to increase profit margins.
I know I'm all over the place with these thoughts, but I just feel like traditional gaming was in trouble the moment the 3DS' price dropped and still didn't pick up as well. Right now, only the PS4 is the outlier as I believe the XB1 has also slowed significantly since its own hot launch, and I bet a good part of that is because customers are tired of being short-changed and just going for the cheaper alternatives.
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Post by Loken on Apr 17, 2014 15:54:02 GMT -5
I don't put a lot of stock into console gaming doomsaying. The principle reason is that mobile games can do an 1/100 of what consoles can do in every category. Out of all the genres of gaming and all of the various game mechanics in existence very few can be adequately done on a cellphone. Can you play the Last of Us on a cellphone? Can you play DarkSouls on a cellphone? Legends? Bioshock, Call of Duty? Name me 10 random console games and only maybe one could be done with mobile. Touch Screen has it's own capabilities but it rules out so many others. If consoles no longer exist then these types of games will no longer exist and there is just too big of an audience for that to happen. I have more to say on the subject but I gotta go to work.
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Post by Servbot42 on Apr 17, 2014 16:40:05 GMT -5
Agreed. There's just too much demand for games that only consoles can deliver. In some dystopian near future where games are just mobile schlock, I can guarantee you I'm not playing video games anymore. They just don't hold my interest.
Discussions like this seem fairly hyperbolic to me. All industries have their ups and downs. People thought video games would vanish as nothing more than a passing fad when the industry crashed in the 80s. Now that we're experiencing a downturn, well, that must mean that console gaming is about to die forever! Pull out your smartphone and download Angry Birds, because that's all you can look forward to! I don't buy it. Maybe the popularity of console gaming will ebb somewhat in the face of the rise of smart phones and new casual gamers, but I don't see what the two can't coexist.
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Post by Dashe on Apr 17, 2014 16:51:46 GMT -5
It's a controller issue, this mobile stuff. I could see consoles dying out and a major shift bringing that sort of adventure to PC with a USB controller, or even that weird steam controller, but joysticks are really effective for moving a character around.
I'm also not really a fan of some aspects of the whole digital distribution thing. I like it when I can buy software and own that copy of the software forever. If I accidentally hit a game disc with a hammer and break it, I'd certainly buy a new disc, don't get me wrong, but if I ever lose access to media I've purchased I'd like the responsibility for that to be on me, not on people I will probably never meet. "I ran over this disc with a truck, so I need to repurchase this game" is my fault, while "This game's server got shut down, so I need to buy a new version of it to play it next hardware gen" is not.
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Post by Servbot42 on Apr 17, 2014 17:53:42 GMT -5
Maybe. Although, Nintendo, a company all about gimmicks, did return to a more standard controller with their new console. Maybe that's a sign of the controller's staying power, maybe it isn't. I certainly don't see the controller going away until a method of interface that is just as precise can be implemented.
And as for digital distribution, that is one aspect of gaming that is here to stay and will likely become the only way to access new content in the near future. I have 200+ games through Steam and the idea of Steam being able to take them all away on a whim (They can, I've read the fine print.) does make me uncomfortable, but what can I do? That's the only way I can access most of those games. And as much as I hate to say it, I do like it because it's very convenient. Buying into stuff like that always feels like stepping into a mouse trap for the cheese...
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Post by HF on Apr 17, 2014 18:45:03 GMT -5
Derailing from mobile gaming as a business here, but since you brought it up: It's a controller issue, this mobile stuff. I could see consoles dying out and a major shift bringing that sort of adventure to PC with a USB controller, or even that weird steam controller, but joysticks are really effective for moving a character around. Also known as tactile or haptic feedback. Though research and some progress is being made on dynamic touchscreens to deliver a similar touch to a keyboard, I believe it'll be a while before it hits the common consumer market at a practical price.
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Post by demonfang178 on Apr 20, 2014 13:12:44 GMT -5
I don't put a lot of stock into console gaming doomsaying. The principle reason is that mobile games can do an 1/100 of what consoles can do in every category. Out of all the genres of gaming and all of the various game mechanics in existence very few can be adequately done on a cellphone. Can you play the Last of Us on a cellphone? Can you play DarkSouls on a cellphone? Legends? Bioshock, Call of Duty? Name me 10 random console games and only maybe one could be done with mobile. Touch Screen has it's own capabilities but it rules out so many others. If consoles no longer exist then these types of games will no longer exist and there is just too big of an audience for that to happen. I have more to say on the subject but I gotta go to work. I have heard some say a high quality or even standard quality phone has more processing power than a 3DS. More importantly than if that's true is why would it be true? Why would you need more power than a 3DS when the most demanding thing you can do on a phone is run the internet? I know you're referring to interface, but I think that's worth mentioning.
Anyway, the more I think about it, the more I realize Gaijin Goomba (youtube guy) was right when he said Japan wants to focus on Japan. Personally, I think the cost of develop is at or at least near the root of the problem. You can't focus on actually marketing your game when you blow a good deal of your budget on just making the game. While there are numerous ways to market a game for free, I rarely see companies utilizing them. I long for the day when someone comes out with a pie chart of how much money was spent developing and pushing a game 10 years ago compared to now, specifically the graphics aspect.
If you can't market your game and it has next to no word-of-mouth by release and you know it's going to tank, why take the risk? Look at Xenoblade and Bravely Default and how much it took just to get those games to come over. Everyone wants an idea of how much their game will sell without spending any money on advertising and generally no effort beyond the first trailer. That's not how hype works.
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Post by demonfang178 on Apr 21, 2014 16:00:34 GMT -5
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pwnswitchclik
Foo-roo
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled, was cancelling MML3
Posts: 28
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Post by pwnswitchclik on Jun 16, 2014 17:23:29 GMT -5
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