The better inventor

[satoh]

So who is better, Tron, or Roll?

The way I see it is a bit more complicated than just raw stats so to speak...

If I had to rank them, I'd say that
Tron has an Inventing rank of A, and
Roll has an Inventing rank of B
...

But more complicated than that. Using the same parlance, Tron has a trait, something like... Budget Builder. Because of this trait, she uses only economical parts, and reuses many of those parts when things break, this saves a lot of money, but the result is that her inventions are one rank less than her overall ability, meaning her skill is A, but her inventions are B ranked.

Now you say, that makes them even... but we know they're not even because never once has Trigger's equipment been broken by... anything.

So then, Roll has a trait as well... Spare No Expense, which allows her to use the highest quality parts, sacrificing funds for quality, adding one rank to her resulting inventions... so her skill is rank B, but she invents A ranked items.

Meaning Tron is actually better at inventing things, but Roll's inventions themselves are better.

That's how I see it, how do you all see it?

[RyanLEO]

Well... everything that Roll invents usually ends up destroying what Tron invents. I would still say they're close to being even since Tron makes giant robots, tanks, and machines, but Roll is able to create a lot of firepower in small weapons. I don't think Tron ever went cheap on anything she made though, since they used to have plenty of money, before Megaman met them.

Aug 18, 2013 15:16:57 GMT -5 Mr. Foetus said:

(satoh, I love your threads)

I agree with this too, some of these are very interesting

[Dashe]

There is one thing Roll's inventions can't destroy--or rather, there are 40 of them. It's like there's literally nothing in the world that can destroy a Servbot. If Tron were able to apply whatever technology she used to make the Servbots into her larger mechs, the Bonnes would be unbeatable.

Roll also created a boss in the Legends 3 Prototype, the ARC-1. You're supposed to go up on it on the motorhorse, but I'm not sure if you were supposed to actually defeat it as Barrett. If you do, then both mechanics might have the same kind of scale issue, where the bigger the thing they make, the less likely it is to stay intact.

_{(Moved post since Roll doesn't even show up in MoTB.  Probably should've used "Move Thread" instead.  Damn that v5.)}

[Buster Cannon]

The way I see it, it's like:

	Roll Caskett	Tron Bonne
Resourcefulness	A	A+
Quality	A+	A
Creativity	A	B+

While the Bonnes machines blow up a lot in game, you have to note that not are the Servbots indestructible, but we've also never seen Teisel's armor get blown off.  It's probably made of some tough stuff, to the extent that it's probably up there with Volnutt's armor.  Roll's stuff breaks sometimes too (Support Car, Train, Boat, Flutter), but I give her a slight quality edge in that Megaman's weapons are more or less stronger than the stuff you see the Bonnes working with.  Both Tron and Roll are also good at making good stuff out of random parts found here and there, but Roll seems like the type to experiment more often.  Not all of her ideas are good or useful (Reflector Arm and Grenade Arm say hi), but you've gotta give her points for trying.  Likewise Tron has shown that she can work on an extremely tight budget despite not having the creativity edge.

Overall I'd say they're close to even, with Roll being slightly more capable.

@ satoh

Seconding the notion that you make some really nice, thought-provoking threads. 

[RyanLEO]

Aug 18, 2013 19:12:12 GMT -5 @truner said:

Aug 18, 2013 18:01:45 GMT -5 Buster Cannon said:

Roll's stuff breaks sometimes too (Support Car, Train, Boat, Flutter), but I give her a slight quality edge in that Megaman's weapons are more or less stronger than the stuff you see the Bonnes working with.

Except none of the vehicles were made by Roll. She only fixed the first three and judging by the dropship, the Flutter wasn't her creation either. Hopefully you don't mind, but I decided to steal borrow your style here, as I liked it.

	Roll Caskett	Tron Bonne
Resourcefulness	S	A
Quality	S	B
Creativity	S	S
Cuteness	S	F

I decided to crank up the letters, since Digger licences don't stop at A. Also gone are the + and - symbols. Taking what I said above and whatever else was said in this thread, I decided to give Roll S for all three of the stats. She made a lasersword out of basically. That's enough to bump both Resourcefulness AND Creativity up. The stuff she makes also never break and whatever she fixes does the job and never breaks until the job is done.

For Tron, I took a score away from Quality, because most of her stuff just breaks. She has an army of Servbots, but that's like making many Mega Busters for Mega Man. I only count them as one creation. Though those fuckers are tough as all hell! I also cranked up her Creativity. No matter how we look at it, her creations are quite nice to look at. That's a different kind of creativity from Roll's, but it IS worth mentioning.

Also, just to make this a shameless Roll vs. Tron thread, I decided to add an extra stat. One which -in my opinion- is also very important for a mechanic.

That stat is incredibly important truner, I'd just like to add my opinion on it too

	Roll Caskett	Tron Bonne
Resourcefulness	S	A
Quality	S	B
Creativity	S	S
Cuteness	S	F--

Not a big fan of that hair style / weird clothes / heels

[satoh]

Aug 18, 2013 19:25:51 GMT -5 RyanLEO said:

Aug 18, 2013 19:12:12 GMT -5 @truner said:

Except none of the vehicles were made by Roll. She only fixed the first three and judging by the dropship, the Flutter wasn't her creation either. Hopefully you don't mind, but I decided to steal borrow your style here, as I liked it.

	Roll Caskett	Tron Bonne
Resourcefulness	S	A
Quality	S	B
Creativity	S	S
Cuteness	S	F

I decided to crank up the letters, since Digger licences don't stop at A. Also gone are the + and - symbols. Taking what I said above and whatever else was said in this thread, I decided to give Roll S for all three of the stats. She made a lasersword out of basically. That's enough to bump both Resourcefulness AND Creativity up. The stuff she makes also never break and whatever she fixes does the job and never breaks until the job is done.

For Tron, I took a score away from Quality, because most of her stuff just breaks. She has an army of Servbots, but that's like making many Mega Busters for Mega Man. I only count them as one creation. Though those fuckers are tough as all hell! I also cranked up her Creativity. No matter how we look at it, her creations are quite nice to look at. That's a different kind of creativity from Roll's, but it IS worth mentioning.

Also, just to make this a shameless Roll vs. Tron thread, I decided to add an extra stat. One which -in my opinion- is also very important for a mechanic.

That stat is incredibly important truner, I'd just like to add my opinion on it too

	Roll Caskett	Tron Bonne
Resourcefulness	S	A
Quality	S	B
Creativity	S	S
Cuteness	S	F--

Not a big fan of that hair style / weird clothes / heels

Well to be fair I was using Servant Parameters because I know them well...

Servants are a thing that is unrelated here so I won't bother explaining... HF probably knows what I mean though.

Anyway, I wasn't rating the characters AS CHARACTERS, otherwise I'd probably rate Roll as an A+ rank with Tron as something like a D++... (again these ranks are sort of hard to explain but it's not really important)
I'm not a big Tron fan myself, but she has her moments. I do like Roll pretty much in general.

Though if personal interpretations and ideals are used Roll ranks in the EX range, well above any numeric classification... but that's because my mind has built up Roll in a way that does not directly reflect the actual written character... Head-canon, like the scent of fresh lemon, you see.

But I still think that Tron is more resourceful.... in the realistic story that was actually told sense. I don't LIKE IT, but that's my objective view.

Obviously it would be pointless to ask "who is a better character in general" as that's been done plenty, and I've read some of the smoldering aftermath and I really don't want to walk away from this thread picking embers out of my hair.

I will say this, Tron's inventing outfit is pretty cute.... Oddly enough she styles her hair spiky when she invents...

^{I wonder if tongari is required for building things...}

_{tongari is a slang term in Japan for people who spike their hair, lit. "Pointed"}

[Dashe]

Cuteness has nothing to do with a mechanic's quality. Leave the blatant objectification out of this, alright?

[Buster Cannon]

When I first saw the cuteness stat I thought they were talking about the cuteness of robots they made. I was like "how are Roll's creations cuter than Tron's? The Flutter has nothing on the Servbots."

@@truner

Yeah, in terms of quality Roll has a natural edge because you play as Megaman, and by canon you don't die...for obvious reasons.  In that regard you don't really see Megaman's equipment break, so it'd be hard to stack points against her unless there were a separate game mode where you could play as the Bonnes.  I guess if I wanted to play Devil's Advocate though I could find some stuff that Roll has managed to screw up in the quality area:

- Fire extinguishers not working on the Flutter in the beginning of MML2, as well as other Flutter-related issues that happen in both games.  Only thing kinda up for debate is that we don't know who built the Flutter.  Roll's certainly capable of doing it, but for all we know Barrell had it long beforehand.
- Megaman's armor is strong but still loses to certain attacks.  Those green plasma balls that KO your Life Shield in MML1 come to mind.
- I shouldn't even have to mention some of the lower-end weapons that she builds.  The good weapons are of excellent quality, but some of the lower-end ones are far more terrible than anything Tron has tried to shoot you with.

That's more or less why I had the quality gap so small.  It's hard to gauge how resilient Roll's stuff is when it's not fired upon that often.

[satoh]

I would point out that Roll didn't actually build the Flutter. Most likely Barrel's owned it since they were infants.

[Dashe]

5-Island stated directly that the Flutter's actually been in the Caskett family for generations, and that's why it hasn't been replaced yet.

[Loken]

Are you sure we should use 5-Island as a reference material?

EDIT: I'd also like to back Truner up on the cuteness factor. Very important.

[satoh]

Alright guys, I love Roll too, but I've already read through a few Tron Vs Roll fanboy flamewars on the archives, we don't need another followup.

This is about inventing skill.
I don't mean to be a buzzkill, but Roll and Tron are two entirely separate cases and their 'character worth' cannot be compared. One stat at a time, here it's inventing, kay?

[HF]

Aug 19, 2013 1:28:18 GMT -5 Loken said:

Are you sure we should use 5-Island as a reference material?

As long as it doesn't clash with the main media (in this case, the games), I would like to think that these small side stories and extended material that makes a series so much more interesting.


As for the better inventor, I would consider Roll being the more innovative one.
On the other hand, how much both of them actually invent as opposed to reading from an instruction manual is up to debate.

The better mechanic/programmer/designer/developer/manager/etc, however, deserves further expansion.


Edit: As for cuteness as a side argument, let's remember that her default appearance and creepy hairstyle isn't even her final form.

[Dashe]

Guys, you fail to understand that we have a major rule involving sexism here (MI #2), and that I am the administrator in charge of this forum. The objectification of women is a huge problem in gaming and all sorts of nerdy endeavors. I see it CONSTANTLY other communities, and I refuse to let it slide in the community that I'm running. It literally infuriates me. If this were a thread where the entire point of the topic is determining whether Roll or Tron is more attractive, that's fine. We even have those. But this thread is about inventing skills, and the next person to bring either character's looks into this argument is going to be written up, no matter who you are or what you're attracted to. If you are one infraction away from a ban, it means that you will be banned, no questions asked.

This is your final warning. Sexism in any form is NOT okay. Take the subject of their attractiveness to a more appropriate thread, or shut up about it and get back on topic. Get it? Got it? Good.

[Loken]

I aplogize. I only ever meant it as a joke. If it helps I'd give Teisel a b rating on cuteness.

Anyway, I think Roll has Tron beat in resourcefulness because she literally uses broken old junk to make fabulous weapons and gadgets. Tron does have to make things from scrap occasionally but more often than not she's got a big bank roll to work with.
For Quality it's a bit hard to determine because although Tron's mech are always defeated Megaman has the largest role in that, not Roll's inventions. I can't really say that I can find any faults in Roll's inventions.
Creativity goes to Tron. The fact that all the Bonne mechs are unique and interesting shows Tron's level of creativity. Roll Seems like more of a pragmatist in comparison. That stark difference probably makes cooperatively building rockets a pain.

If only we saw Roll's mech, then we could better determine some of these factors.