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Post by Adrian2040 on Jul 25, 2013 15:24:44 GMT -5
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RyanLEO
Poh
At the Stripe Burger!
Posts: 415
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Post by RyanLEO on Jul 25, 2013 16:15:15 GMT -5
I'm glad Gregaman is still active, I still remember the Capcom Euro tweet that said they wished the fans participated more. There were many others they responded to, but the ones of saved were more profane so I won't post them for now.
Even though he said it was still unintentional, it was still bullcrap that they never released the prototype they said was going to be available.
EDIT: at the top of his post... "We are still examining the possibility of Legends 1/2/MOTB releases on PSN" 0_0 That would be pretty amazing especially if it became available for PS4 when it comes out. He still said they aren't making any promises though
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Post by Dashe on Jul 26, 2013 14:11:04 GMT -5
I really do hope those rereleases pull through. The only thing amounting to reasoning was that it wasn't popular enough the first time around. He still didn't tell us exactly what went down or why the Prototype didn't make it, which is a pain because THAT was supposed to be the gauge for its potential for success. Just discounting it as a fiscal failure and not trying to retest it in a drastically different market was really stupid, and from what we know they didn't have anything to lose by putting the Prototype on the eShop.
It's like they went, "Oh, you don't even get to take this test to determine if you're worth the effort. We've already decided you're going to fail it. Have a nice day." I'm really sure that if a game like Battle Network, which had even less to do with the original Mega Man, can succeed enough to get them to try and further milk it with the one-game-for-the-price-of-two three (plus a spinoff series) treatment, then the gaming population of today, especially the Nintendo audience, could actually appreciate a series like this. Especially if they actually bothered to polish it up a little instead of just making a straight port.
And yeah, I know, they're not industrious enough to want to invest in anything other than a straight port. Probably not even English. Frankly, I'd just like to see Capcom tank and let someone else buy the IP.
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Post by Rockman Striker on Jul 26, 2013 21:38:37 GMT -5
I'm actually happy to know that they wanted to make the game, it was a risky strategy as Gregaman says, but this experiment succeeded because many sites actually spoke about the devroom; I've learned many things about 3d modeling and game creation, not to mention I've got inspiration for my game.
What I want to know is why the prototype didn't make it to the e shop even when it was finished, it was practically like trashing a perfectly fine cake just because you couldn't sold it.
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Post by Loken on Aug 12, 2013 12:33:49 GMT -5
I've never found any respite from these public statements Greg makes. You always take away the feeling that he and Capcom are annoyed by having to say anything on the subject and you can tell they don't really give a damn about us. They say that the experience was overall good and has taught them lessons and shaped the company but what they really learned was to never attempt some thing like the Legends 3 project ever again. Hardly inspirational.
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Post by satoh on Aug 12, 2013 21:20:43 GMT -5
I've never found any respite from these public statements Greg makes. You always take away the feeling that he and Capcom are annoyed by having to say anything on the subject and you can tell they don't really give a damn about us. They say that the experience was overall good and has taught them lessons and shaped the company but what they really learned was to never attempt some thing like the Legends 3 project ever again. Hardly inspirational. I agree with you. What I take away from this is that there are possibly a small number of people working for capcom of america that wanted to produce the game, but that capcom as a corporate entity loathed the idea from the onset, and used it as a spite when one of their big names left. There is actually validity to the "what they really learned was to never attempt some thing like the Legends 3 project ever again" statement. History has actually told us time and time again that when people come together and share ideas on what they want a product to be, it is always terrible in the end. Design by committee satisfies one desire of each person, with a product no one would ever want. The combination of what you want and what I want, ends up being something neither of us wants. It was a cool concept, but doomed to fail I think. however... that said, even a bad sequel would still be better than nothing at all.
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Post by Loken on Aug 13, 2013 1:35:48 GMT -5
The way they involved the community allowed fan contribution while keeping the game design tight and stable. Much like our own TLT, the events add to the game in specific planned out scenarios. We weren't making the game, just getting to submit some things. Would have worked perfectly if they had just made the game. As you say any game would have been good, but our Legends 3 would have been great. What they learned wasn't to not let us into development but that they really shouldn't publicize games they never planned on making.
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Post by Dragge on Aug 13, 2013 21:32:11 GMT -5
I just think at this point they should recreate the first 2 games from the ground up (add in some more things here and there (don't ask me what I'm just saying), update the graphics, gameplay, new voice actors, etc) and get some new sales data. They always bring up how it wasn't a huge seller but this is from a console 3 generations back, i don't think there were as many hard core gamers as there is now. Plus we have the internet where word travels quicker and such. People hear about things. Capcom needs to stop looking at old sales data and get some new data. Wasn't that darn internet survey supposed to help with that? I find it sad that Legends was the 3rd version of Mega Man but even to this day it doesn't get as much attention as the other series do.
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Post by satoh on Aug 13, 2013 23:01:58 GMT -5
I just think at this point they should recreate the first 2 games from the ground up (add in some more things here and there (don't ask me what I'm just saying), update the graphics, gameplay, new voice actors, etc) and get some new sales data. They always bring up how it wasn't a huge seller but this is from a console 3 generations back, i don't think there were as many hard core gamers as there is now. Plus we have the internet where word travels quicker and such. People hear about things. Capcom needs to stop looking at old sales data and get some new data. Wasn't that darn internet survey supposed to help with that? I find it sad that Legends was the 3rd version of Mega Man but even to this day it doesn't get as much attention as the other series do. This is the sort of thing that typically kills a series. Remakes always alienate people in the end. Tension is then created between the fans who liked the original and those who like the new. Remakes are never faithful to the original. I'd like to see the original games exactly as they are, -maybe- with new graphics... but even then, considering Capcom's track record for ruining things I once liked, I'm pretty sure they'd screw up the graphics. I mean, they couldn't even keep MML1 and 2 consistent. To be quite honest, I don't think I could play a remake if it didn't have what I expected. For another example, MML1 had excellent jumping physics that were about as good as they could be. MML2 had ok jumping physics compared to a lot of games, but I found myself cheating consistently just to avoid having to deal with the badness of it, because it was actually mandatory in MML2 and they were much less precise and controllable. If MML1 had had MML2's jumping, I probably wouldn't have enjoyed it as much... and I'm quite certain that was the type of jump they had intended it to have, but failed to create the first time. Now imagine, if they used new physics and animations on everything, which I can 100% guarantee would be different in both look and feel, would it still be the same game? To give an example of another game that was created specifically to pander to both the old fans and create new ones... Sonic Generations. They tweaked and tweaked for ages on the engine, and in the end, the final product was still nothing like the games they had been trying to mimic. The fact is, there will never be a remake that is as good as MML was and still is. They can only do worse than they had before. There will be a few rabid love-it-because-they-have-nothing-better fans... in fact a large portion of the target market today is people who don't know just how bad their games are in comparison to others. Its why we see so many stale cookie cutter games that have nothing new or interesting in them whatsoever... and also why so many games seem to be focused solely on graphics... I have no doubt that any Legends remake would be like a rose... nice to look at, but not much fun to play with or talk about. Looking at it from a realistic standpoint, it will be another ten years before Legends is even considered for revisit, and by then Capcom will not care about the fans that want it even in the slightest, because they will all be older than 25. As it stands, 25 is pushing it for the target market anyway, because adults sometimes have a tendency to actually think about things. That's bad for business. What you want is morons. Since pandering to the stupid and mentally infirmed is frowned upon, the best they can do is market to teenagers, the next closest market. You know those really annoying youtube flame wars about which is better, halo-clone or call of modern generic war story? That's the target market. They buy games, unquestioningly. To be direct: True fans are not a good business venture for Capcom.(Inafune-san has stated this in a roundabout way a few times, as the reason they weren't making another Legends game.)
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Post by Buster Cannon on Aug 14, 2013 1:28:50 GMT -5
I second the assertion that a remake is a bad idea. Straight HD ports would be enough of a treat as it is. Only thing that really needs changing is MML2 having the PSP changes on-board; remove the underwater slowdown and modify the weapon upgrade prices. We'd lose King Miroc but that's honestly a small price to pay...no pun intended.
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Post by Kyle on Aug 14, 2013 18:21:45 GMT -5
satoh: I'm willing to disagree about remakes being inherently flawed creations that will never surpass their original predecessors. Ironically, Capcom themselves made, in my opinion, one of the greatest remakes of an older game in their possession; Resident Evil on the GameCube/Wii. See, this is an example of a remake being a remake in its purest form. It improved upon everything. Nowadays, the common practice is only upscaling the textures and (if we're lucky) tweaking the FPS. Which is a grey area for me, thanks to the Silent Hill HD Collection. It is a horrible, horrible shame, though. Had there been enough push within the company, 2002 Capcom would've taken the risk of a MML Remake. With Inafune at the helm, it could've possibly been the quintessential game in the series.
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Post by HF on Aug 14, 2013 19:44:29 GMT -5
satoh: I'm willing to disagree about remakes being inherently flawed creations that will never surpass their original predecessors. Want a recent example to support your statement? DuckTales*; the recent remake by WayForward turned this incredible platformer into a game which combines both the gameplay of the original and the charm of the cartoons. It feels like you're watching an episode of the TV Series as you play. Pandering to the fanbase? Maybe, but it doesn't change the fact that the game's a solid platformer while not dumbing itself down (though an Easy Mode is there, higher difficulties reap better rewards via a difficulty modifier bonus at the end of each stage). * (Woo-ooh!)
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Post by Loken on Aug 15, 2013 15:45:18 GMT -5
I think a rerelease on digital platforms of the PSP versions would be the best, most cost effective, way to bring the games to a new audience. I think Legends 3 would do fine without a rerelease but there are a lot of inherent problems with letting a series rot for a decade or so. There are many people who wouldn't want to jump into the 3 game in a series, and for people that don't mind there would either be alot that they don't understand or game is really disconnected from the originals. I imagine a lot of people would play Legends 3 and then really want to play the older games. There are 2 difficulties with that. 1. It's hard to play them. You have to either emulate or buy them of ebay for an exuberant price. 2. Once they get the old games they seem way outdated because they are ps1 games. they should have never let it get like this.
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Post by satoh on Aug 15, 2013 16:43:58 GMT -5
I think I just realized something...
In a business, at least 25% of your customers MUST be -new- customers, in order for your venture to be a worthwhile profitable action... I think when Capcom reps said there wasn't enough interest, they meant the game hadn't brought in any customers that weren't already fans of the series.
So it did fail to get the support they wanted, because it was all old business... "regular customers" can't keep a business afloat, regardless of how many you think you have. (This has been proven by several failed businesses that catered specifically to their repeat customers, and never tried to get any new ones, the 25% rule is documented if you care to know more)
So the only thing that could have saved MML3 was more people... but specifically people who didn't know what the Eff MML was.
I'm not saying I agree with their decision, I'm just saying that there are legitimate business related numbers that could be the reason they made it.
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Post by Dashe on Aug 15, 2013 18:04:57 GMT -5
In a business, at least 25% of your customers MUST be -new- customers, in order for your venture to be a worthwhile profitable action... I think when Capcom reps said there wasn't enough interest, they meant the game hadn't brought in any customers that weren't already fans of the series. So it did fail to get the support they wanted, because it was all old business... "regular customers" can't keep a business afloat, regardless of how many you think you have. (This has been proven by several failed businesses that catered specifically to their repeat customers, and never tried to get any new ones, the 25% rule is documented if you care to know more) So the only thing that could have saved MML3 was more people... but specifically people who didn't know what the Eff MML was. I'm not saying I agree with their decision, I'm just saying that there are legitimate business related numbers that could be the reason they made it. You've got to admit though, the advertising Capcom did to try and tell new customers about it in the first place wasn't great. In fact, it was pretty horrible. The Prototype itself would've been ideal for something like that. Nintendo Power did get that article, but it happened way too late in the game to do any good. They really only seemed to target Capcom Unity members and people who already followed Capcom and Mega Man stuff. I'd rather see a remake than a straight port, simply because I've played the original Mega Man Legends enough times that it'd be difficult to justify buying it for a fourth time, and a straight port just wouldn't be able to compete visually with anything on the market now. And the audio would definitely need to stay PSX-quality, because the N64 version's audio was horrible. It isn't like they haven't got an engine set up to work optimally with this series or anything. What we got to see of the Prototype gameplay footage looked like it controlled pretty well, and Chris Hoffman didn't have any complaints about it when he demoed it.
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