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Post by Blues on May 19, 2006 15:30:15 GMT -5
Actually, there was a giant, hexagonal thing in Glyde's base. It looked Exactly like Eden's 10,000-worker-storage-capsule, only without the eye logo, and maybe bigger than Kattleox's. It would make sense that the eye logo wore off, though- it looks like those house ruins have been there for a long time. The thing seemed to be crashed into Glyde's base.
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Post by ravenf6 on May 19, 2006 15:38:38 GMT -5
Hmm, that makes me curious.
If Eden and Elysium are "Heaven" did the Master or those under him create a representation of "Hell?"
This has become something of a theological enigma IMO
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Post by Musashi on May 19, 2006 15:48:25 GMT -5
Well, I don't really think that Elysium represents heaven as opposed to Terra hell, its more like Heaven as in the fact its paradise and the "gods" if you will, live there. Terra I believe is just Earth. I don't even think there is any dying and going into one of two places dependant on you kind of thing in the game
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Post by ravenf6 on May 19, 2006 16:02:46 GMT -5
Well, I don't really think that Elysium represents heaven as opposed to Terra hell, its more like Heaven as in the fact its paradise and the "gods" if you will, live there. Terra I believe is just Earth. I don't even think there is any dying and going into one of two places dependant on you kind of thing in the game Interesting, but then again, Juno practically kills everyone on Kattleox when the carbon population grows to great to control, which he's been doing for who knows how long before Trigger riddled his smiling chassis with plasma burns. Juno's practically an angel of death.
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Post by Pitch on May 19, 2006 16:12:04 GMT -5
Hmm, that makes me curious. If Eden and Elysium are "Heaven" did the Master or those under him create a representation of "Hell?" This has become something of a theological enigma IMO Just to point out, the terms "Elysium" and "Terra" are falsely translated. In the original games, it simply was "Heaven" and "Earth". The whole idea of Legends 2 with the Master's story was that Elysium - Heaven - was a Hell in and of itself. Terra, then theoretically, would be the "perfect" world.
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Post by Reavercat on May 19, 2006 16:19:17 GMT -5
What is Eden? It might be a Dr. Weil clone? Or Bomb system? Or it just erases people. Who knows? For all I know it turns people into dancing female ardvark umbrellas.
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Post by Pitch on May 19, 2006 16:20:12 GMT -5
Reavercat, I wonder, have you even played the games? ?
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Post by ravenf6 on May 19, 2006 16:21:14 GMT -5
Hmm, that makes me curious. If Eden and Elysium are "Heaven" did the Master or those under him create a representation of "Hell?" This has become something of a theological enigma IMO Just to point out, the terms "Elysium" and "Terra" are falsely translated. In the original games, it simply was "Heaven" and "Earth". The whole idea of Legends 2 with the Master's story was that Elysium - Heaven - was a Hell in and of itself. Terra, then theoretically, would be the "perfect" world. True that. Guess that would make Eden "God's wrath" in MML. Sera's forms look somewhat similar to a devil now that I think about it, so now Elysium's become Pandemonium with Sera at the throne. A perfect world may not be so 'perfect' after all: Elysium=perfection and order Earth= chaos and freedom.
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Post by Reavercat on May 19, 2006 16:35:11 GMT -5
Reavercat, I wonder, have you even played the games? ? I have played all legends game, but I played and beaten MML1 a long time ago and my copy of it vanished a long time ago as well, so I'm a little fuzzy on the story. But I do know that Eden was deseigned for deleating all carbons on the island, I think. Edit: I'm also hypted up on grape juice, pizza pockets, and the image of Zero getting his butt wopped by copy X. Also it feels like I'm sitting in an oven.
Just a little idea, but it might be possible that the Elysium is A kind of Eden, but on a much larger schale. In a pic some one posted earlier, it showed the Elysium in orbit with a bunch of things in orbit. Those things might be Edens. An Eden is used for a small area to deleate carbons, while the Elysium is used for the whole planent. So Eden might be a smaller version of the Elysium. What also came into mind was that you needed 3 keys to get access to Eden. While you need 4 keys to get access to the carbon renitallization program which is on the Elysium. Just a a little idea.
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Post by Dashe on May 19, 2006 17:10:22 GMT -5
4 keys to access the carbon reinitialization? If I recall correctly, there were only three: Watcher, Sleeper, and Dreamer--you found them in the sub-cities in the Old City, Downtown, and Uptown, respectively.
Say, what were the command prompts on the control panel you find when you get to the bottom of the Main Gate, where you first open up the sub-cities? I'm pretty sure Eden was mentioned somewhere during that sequence of events, but Mega Man couldn't directly control Eden from there, right?
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Post by Reavercat on May 19, 2006 17:14:10 GMT -5
4 keys to access the carbon reinitialization? If I recall correctly, there were only three: Watcher, Sleeper, and Dreamer--you found them in the sub-cities in the Old City, Downtown, and Uptown, respectively. I was talking about MML2
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Post by Dashe on May 19, 2006 18:04:55 GMT -5
Ohhhhh. That threw me for a loop cause this thread's in MML Talk. I'm pretty rusty with MML2, you all know that. I remember those four keys got you into the library, right? That library didn't really have any books in it. I was somewhat disappointed.
But yeah. We know Juno controlled Eden directly from the Main Gate, but only to reinitialize Kattelox, because from what the books in the Kattelox Library said, there's a disaster unique to the island that happens about once every century or so. Does the Library in Elysium control a master Reinitialization system for all the carbons in the world?
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Post by Pitch on May 19, 2006 18:09:13 GMT -5
Yes and no. Actually, I think the Library was where the genetic codes and other information from the Ancients was. Reinitialization, basically served to recreate the ancients and purge the carbons, if my memory serves. It could be controlled from the Library, I guess... that is the deepest area in Elysium.
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Post by ravenf6 on May 19, 2006 18:11:24 GMT -5
Ohhhhh. That threw me for a loop cause this thread's in MML Talk. I'm pretty rusty with MML2, you all know that. I remember those four keys got you into the library, right? That library didn't really have any books in it. I was somewhat disappointed. But yeah. We know Juno controlled Eden directly from the Main Gate, but only to reinitialize Kattelox, because from what the books in the Kattelox Library said, there's a disaster unique to the island that happens about once every century or so. Does the Library in Elysium control a master Reinitialization system for all the carbons in the world? It would appear so. The Master, at the time may have reserved it for when things went beyond critical on Earth. Basically, to rebuild a new world of carbons, he would have needed to destroy what already is. Sera might have done it after getting the keys, but I guess she felt that she couldn't have closure if Trigger did not die at her hands, since he was close to the Master: something of which Sera was extremely jealous of.
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Post by Santa Melty on May 19, 2006 21:10:33 GMT -5
You people post fast. I considered that, though my take was more along the lines that so many workers would mean a cramped working space, not more working space. Good point though. It might depend on how far the Eden she is on is from the destination, but commuting could easily be made a snap. There doesn’t seem to be anything mentioned in the game that would make Eden unusable for such purposes from a practical standpoint. The only contradiction I can see would be that bit about Eden asking for Trigger to deliver a simple message to Yuna. That leads us off into some untidy blind spots. I had always assumed that Yuna lived on the Forbidden Island. One of Yuna’s “key” purposes was to protect the keys (GAHAHAHAHA), and the way the keys are positioned on islands around Forbidden Island makes you think that Forbidden Island served some sort of purpose, even before Sera was locked there. It would be a good lookout point; you could access any of the ruins on any of the surrounding islands within a couple of minutes on Gattz. Ah, wait, you mean the tower that was INSIDE Glyde's base? I remember something like that in the first or second area. I'd think it was just something Glyde put in, though I'll need to go see what it looks like for myself. I haven't seen his base in a while. A perfect world? Not so much, I think. Perfection is more of an idea than a state. When the ancients constructed Elysium, they believed it to be perfect. The Master, on the other hand, thought Terra with the Carbons to be closer to perfection, and even he thought that he was living in a perfect world until he had the Carbons to compare himself to. The idea of perfection is contended, but in the end, I don't think they ever meant either Elysium or Terra to come off as better than the other. I think it was more of a comparison of ideals. It's closer to what Raven said, I say. See? Chaos versus order. That seems to sum it up for me. I can imagine that the Master would favor the Carbon way of life after being in Elysium for 10 millenniums. Poor man was probably bored out of his mind for the better part of it. As for Sera being like a devil, I guess she does have a pretty good stare, but otherwise, she doesn't seem very devilish. Little girls in dresses do not a devil make. Besides, Sera representing a devil would mean Yuna has to represent some sort of savior or god, just for proper contrast. And like the bit about whether Terra or Elysium is perfect, whether or not Sera was actually the villain and Yuna was a hero would depend on the individual character’s stand on the matter. Certainly, to the System, Yuna and Trigger would have been hated fiends. I doubt it. They seem to have very little in common, aside from being able to use the reinitialization program. Eden, as far as we can tell, was just a small piece of the System's complex on Terra. They took orders from the System members there, and stored their data, but other than that their powers seemed to be limited. Elysium, meanwhile, was the base of operations for the entire System, as well as serving as a home for the Master. As for both of the being able to reinitialize, their range of effect was not the only difference. Eden, according to Juno, is used solely for population control. The reinitialization system on Elysium’s key purpose was not to control the Carbons, but to restore the original humans. The deleting of the carbons was probably only secondary to that; in the eyes of the System, they would only be taking up space once the humans came back to run things. As to why they were there in the first place, who knows? We can save that for another time. There was that thing I brought up about the possibility of Eden having some sort of authority in the System, since a go-ahead from it could unlock the Main Gate, but that was most likely an automated system that was to activate of its own accord if there was some sort of emergency. Actually, it was mentioned in the game. They keys were needed to access the library, which was where the reinitialization program could be activated from. Observe:
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