Gesellschaft and Gemeinschaft: the Real Meanings!

[feldinaut]

((Hm... I thought there was already a thread on this, but I guess I was thinking of one at MLU?))

We Legends fans have long struggled with the meanings of the kooky pseudo-German names of the Bonnes' robotic creations. Cheap Babelfish translations leave us feeling unfulfilled and confused. Well, I may have found a little bit of explanation behind the names of the Gesellschaft and the Gemeinschaft ((AKA the Bonnes' Yosyonke Train)).

I'm taking Introductory Sociology ((the study of society, how people interact with each other, how society effects who you are, etc.)) this semester in college. Now you may ask what Sociology has to do with Legends... I was pretty sure, until now, that they had NOTHING to do with each other. But look what I found in my reading assignment this week:

used the term Gemeinschaft, or "intimate community," to describe village life, the type of society in which everyone knows everyone else. He noted that in the society that was emerging, the village's personal tie, family connections, and lifelong friendships were being crowded out by short-term relationships, individual accomplishments, and self-interest. [He] called this new type of society Gesellschaft, or "impersonal association." He did not mean that we no longer have intimate ties to family and friends, but, rather, that these ties have shrunk in importance. Contracts, for example, replace handshakes, and work doesn't center on friends and camily, but strangers and short-term acquaintances.

Don't worry if you didn't catch that. I can barely understand it myself. Basically, we now know that the names of the Gesellschaft and Gemeinschaft are actually.... Sociological terms. Which answers just about nothing but the question, "How zany are the Japanese?"

You can try to read into this, I guess, but thinking of the Gesellschaft as being a society where Bonne family ties are unimportant and where Servbots work in office jobs really doesn't work for me.

Oh! But there is one thing we can learn from my Sociology textbook: the pronunciations.

Gemeinschaft (Guh-MINE-shoft)
Gesellschaft (Guh-ZELL-shoft)

Uh... So I guess the Bonnes have been mispronouncing the name of their own ship. It's okay, Canadian voice actors. We forgive you.

...except for maybe Susan Roman.

Anyone think they can make any sense of this?

EDIT: Okay, just thought about this, and... Maybe somebody was trying to say that, like, a Gesellschaft society is a wealthy society...? When the Bonnes were rich, they had the Gesellschaft. When they built the Gemeinschaft, they were poor and had to use scrap parts. Or something. You know what? The more I reflect upon this, the cornier it gets.

[PharaohManXe54]

Lol, that's pretty cool! Would this sociologist happen to be named Bonne? Or prehaps Keiji Inafune? Anyways, maybe the Geminschaft was called that because the cars were linked together and stuff and the Gesellschaft was called that because it didn't trust the sky because it kept crashing.........? Hey, it could happen. McWorld.

[feldinaut]

Actually, the dude's name was... Something strange that had a funny ASCII character in it, which was why I didn't feel like writing it out.

[SIMSteven]

This is what I've been saying all along. Back around 2001-2002, I had a sociology class. Gemmienshaft meant "poor society." Gesselshaft meant "rich society." I think I said it several times at MLU, and maybe once here.

[feldinaut]

I knew you had mentioned something like that, but honestly, I thought you had gotten it from a translation site. Ehehe.

And you know, a good number of our members are not members of MLU. I searched and couldn't find anywhere you'd said it here at MMLS ((that's what I was looking for, actually, so I could add to it)).

From my text, I didn't get the meaning it meant "rich" as much as "technologically advanced" and "emotionally detached." But you know, either way, it doesn't make much sense, especially since the Gemeinschaft, I feel, is perhaps the most minor unremarkable Bonne machines in the games. I guess Capcom finds it more meaningful than they let on?

[Bureaucratic Model 1-3]

I think these are little jokes some writer in Japan or wherever came up with as little inside jokes. You could interpret that under Gesselcraft the Bonnes were on their own as a family and were more pirate, whereas in the Gemisiscraft (or whatever) they had to associate with those other villainous fiends, like Glyde. But otherwise I wouldn't look to hard or you'll start seeing things that they probably didn't even write in.

[aarond]

The answer is simple (I did read and fully understand the sociology text quote, by the way (cinches up belt)):

Okay, so it has to do with relative proximity.

On the Gesellschaft, the Bonnes were living together, but not closely. Everyone had his/her own room, there were plenty of communal rooms to hide in, etc, and the trappings of stolen wealth to distract them.

On the Gemeinschaft (train), everyone was arses to elbows, tightly packed together. That's kind of the joke, which was probably not thought up until MML2, but who knows?

[PharaohManXe54]

Maybe their are other sociological terms in MML, like maybe Tiesel means something because maybe the overriding theme in people's names is sociological terms, like music was the overriding theme in the original megaman games and greek symbols were the overriding theme in Megaman X and digital/technological stuff was the overiding theme in Megaman Battle Network. Just a thought. I can't really think of any other names that could be like that other then Volnutt and the aforementioned Tiesel. Look up those terms in your sociology book.

[GustaffGlyde]

Well, I have a few ideas of my on the reasons why the two Bonne machines were called what they were. First off, I know this thread is old… ten days or so, but I’m kinda new so I never had a chance to say anything when it was fairly new. Now, onto my theory. This theory comes from having to stay home all day while watching the history channel, so be warned (yup, I ignored your warning about thinking to hard…). My little theory is odd, and SIMSteven or aarond is probably right, but I enjoy thinking about things in odd/hard ways (Depends on how you look at it)

Alright, here it is. This theory relies on the Bonnes representing Germany, so think of them as the Germans. In MML1, the Bonnes arrive in the Gesselschaft. As mentioned, they weren’t a very close-knit group, each member doing their own thing. This can be likened to Nazi Germany (Wait, don’t shoot me yet). Germany then was aiming to create a “perfect” people who were all of a noble status (Aryan means free born or noble I think). The Germans, especially Hitler, were very suspicious of one another, and the different divisions of the army often competed with one another instead of cooperating. This is represented by the Gesselschaft. The Bonnes, just like the Germans, are in a loose alliance although they are family. They don’t fully cooperate until it is too late to turn things around. Now, the Gesselschaft’s fall is like the fall of Nazi Germany. Also, Bruno could represent the siege of Berlin and the pro-Nazi Germans trying to prevent its fall, or something like that (Like I said, it’s a weird theory) Next, we move onto the Gemeinschaft. This train could represent Germany while it was under communist control (Yes, I know that not all of Germany was communist, but still the part that was is what I’m talking about). The Bonnes worked closely, not only with each other (like in Saul Kada), but with those they had once considered enemies (The Germans weren’t too fond of the Russians, but they were under there control.). Once again, when the Gemeinschaft is destroyed, it could represent the fall of communism in Germany. Just like a communist society, they all began getting suspicious of one another and their little community fell apart. Last, we have the Bonnes during the post credits scene. There they are like the modern free Germany of today or a few yesterdays. Either way, they’ve changed. This is clearly shown by the fact that they’re helping their mortal enemies rescue the man who got them in this mess in the first place.

Well… yeah, it’s …odd. Still, it’s a theory none the less. The moral of this story? Never watch the History channel for more than one to two hours at a time (Less if you’re… special).

[JMC47]

You watch the history channel too. Your ideas actually makes sense in my idiotic demented world. You proved all your points with facts and historical reference. The theory seemed to be well thought out and even though I don't think that is what capcom was aiming for, if they were you really did your homework. If I'd have to agree that it is socialogical terms that have special meanings though, because yours may be a little to smart for some people(me), and it makes too much sense in a way. I think that capcom just ran out of ideas and put random letter combinations for the names of the 2 machines.