About Legends' Attack values.

[demonfang178]

I want to put together a damage and all-around efficiency FAQ for Legends 1 and 2 since those are the few aspects no one really touches upon. But the damage values are all over the place and I can't get an accurate reading.

For example, in Legends 1 on Hard the HanmuruDoll takes 19 Splash Mines (at base level) to defeat.  It has 8160 HP.  If I whether to look at this at face value that means each mine deals around 429 damage.  But that can't be true because otherwise I could drop the submarines at Lake Lyun in a single mine.

So what is it?  Does Legends pull a Classic Mega Man and have enemies that are weaker to some weapons than they are to others?

I am asking here because I heard knowledgeable people frequent this site including speedrunners and because I am not keen on emailing a bunch of users for information that might not exist.

[Dashe]

Huh, I've never tried to use the splash mines in Lake Jyun. Always assumed that was impossible.

I honestly have no idea where Christine Cain originally got the HP values cited in the hint book from. Undertaking a project like this will probably involve a lot of playtesting with different buster upgrades and weapons upgrades. That's how I figured out the refractor values for the different modes on Legends 1, anyway. But yeah, if you're looking for someone who can dedicate time to performing that kind of testing, you'd probably find 'em here. If I were to go about it myself I'd throw Cain's values out the window since none of us are sure where she got those numbers to start with, and just assume that the buster gun, with no attack upgrades, deals one unit of damage per hit.

I do recall the buster with the power raiser managed to down the tanks at city hall in 21 hits, but the splash mine with no upgrades offed them in three. That's all I actually ever counted.

[demonfang178]

Yeah. Only reason I know is because I saw it in a speedrun video.

Worst case scenario is I'll have to defeat every enemy with every weapon at every level of power...twice just to be thorough. Juno is going to be fun.

[Kyle]

I'm sure our resident speedrunners know the complete structure of MML1, MML2 and MoTB. They've sunken more hours into the series then the average MMSLer would have. Then again, for a 100% accurate reading, you'd have to use ActionReplay or its ilk to obtain weaponry well before the designated retrieval time. I suppose if you own copies of the games, just use an emulator with savestates. It should really speed up the process if you're winging it alone.

[Buster Cannon]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the JP strategy guide have damage values as well?  That may be where Christine Cain got her numbers from.

As for the values themselves, if wouldn't surprise me if some enemies/bosses were weaker to some weapons than others, or otherwise just flat out having less defense.  From what I can tell, even though bosses/enemies have set HP values, there are a few cases where they take more damage than usual through a weak spot or some other method.  The Feldynaught comes to mind; hitting the mech's right leg causes it more damage.  Same thing with Giwan's tail in MML2.

That said, getting the damage values in the Legends series is going to be a nightmare just due to how weapons work here.  Nearly everything is multi-hitting so you'd need to not only find out the number of hits [insert weapon here] does per shot, but the damage value of each shot as well.  Then you take into account the size of the target you're hitting effecting the number of hits you get, and God help you with moving/flying enemies like Draches.  You could probably cut out a ton of the busywork with a cheating device like a Gameshark/ActionReplay.

[demonfang178]

Well, I tried downloading an emulator twice and got a virus both times. I don't even know if they work because I am too scared to download the actual game now. No, I think I do this the hard way.

And I've thought about the damage values themselves and realized that if I list of how much of one weapon a specific enemy can take, then the actual damage dealt becomes a non-issue. But even with this approach things like the Drill Arm and Shining Laser are going to be a pain. Only way to calculate it then would be to time the attacks and that makes it very open to error. Although I did forget that an enemy's size may be a factor.

This said, I think I'll make it more of a guideline than an FAQ since FAQs are expected to be exact and this will by no means be exact.

[demonfang178]

Alright. I am going to try to do rough updates every Sunday just in case no one comes along with this information already available. I decided to start with the Buster first because I believed it would be the most difficult (I am probably wrong). Somethings I've half-assed beyond defending (Feldynaught, Marlwolf, Barukon Gelede) . And I am only going as high as the highest Attack level you can have at that point otherwise I'd need a cheat device.

Somethings I have noticed is that the Buster's Attack upgrades get progressively lessened, GuruGuru (the spider-alligator type reaverbot) flips over MUCH faster the faster you deal damage and returns to its neutral state after you have shaved off half its HP, enemies take more damage in the their "knockdown" state, but I am unsure by how much, and you can hit Barukon Gelede's Core with only +1 Range but I REALLY don't recommend it, and Sharukurusu at the Lake Jynn Ruins (the cloaking claw guys) possibly take more damage with cloaked.  That's where I stopped. 

Anything with a "maybe" means I am not sure as I lost count (which WILL happen a lot) and I'll redo...at some point and I can take criticism decently enough.

Zakobon: HP: 64 (Intro Dungeon)
Buster:
Level 0: 3
Level 1: 2
Mirumijee: HP: 32 (Intro Dungeon)
Buster:
Level 0: 2
Level 1: 1
Cannam: HP: 1280 (Intro Dungeon)
Buster:
Level 0: 14 maybe
Level 1: 12
HanmuruDoll: HP: 8160 (Intro Dungeon)
Buster:
Level 0: 43
Level 1: 32 maybe

 

Zakobon: HP: 64 (Portal 1)
Buster:
Level 0: 6
Level 1: 4
Mirumijee: HP: 32 (Portal 1)
Buster:
Level 0: 2
Level 1: 1
Shekuten: HP: 32 (Portal 1)
Buster:
Level 0: 4
Level 1:
Arukoitan: HP: 480 (Portal 1)
Buster:
Level 0: 20
Level 1: 14
Orudakoitan: HP: 448 (Portal 1)
Buster:
Level 0: 19
Level 1: 13

Yellow Blumebear: HP: 1856
Buster:
Level 0: 93 maybe
Level 1: 67
Level 2: 53
Level 3: 41
Red Blumebear: HP: 896
Buster:
Level 0: 40
Level 1: 25
Level 2: 23
Level 3: 19
Blue Blumebear: HP: 768
Buster:
Level 0: 33 maybe
Level 1: 22
Level 2: 21
Level 3: 16
Red Drache: 192
Buster:
Level 0: 8
Level 1: 6
Level 2: 5
Level 3: 4
Feldynaught: HP: 4096 (no weakness)
Buster:
Level 0: 155
Level 1: 127 maybe
Level 2: 94
Level 3: 84 maybe

Yellow Maiberu Haagen HP: 768
Buster:
Level 0: 30
Level 1: 21
Level 2: 20
Level 3: 16
Red Maiberu Haagen HP: 384
Buster:
Level 0: 15
Level 1: 13
Level 2: 11
Level 3: 8
Yellow Horunisse:
Buster:
Level 0: 23 maybe
Level 1: 18
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 13
Red Horunisse:
Buster:
Level 0: 23 maybe
Level 1: 18
Level 2: 15
Level 3: 12
Blue Horunisse:
Level 0: 28
Level 1: 18
Level 2: 14
Level 3: 12
Bon Bonne: HP: 2496
Buster:
Level 0: 97
Level 1: 72
Level 2: 61
Level 3: 52

Leopordo: HP: 448
Buster:
Level 0: 19
Level 1: 14:
Level 2: 12
Level 3: 10
Gun Battery: HP: 160
Buster:
Level 0: 7
Level 1: 5
Level 2: 4
Level 3: 3
Threads:
Buster:
Level 0: 100 maybe
Level 1: 48
Level 2: 45 maybe
Level 3: 33
Marlwolf: HP: 1536
Buster:
Level 0: 37 with 1 headache
Level 1: 25 with 3 headaches
Level 2: 23 maybe with 3 headaches
Level 3:

Zuuf Geleido: HP: 96
Buster:
Level 0: 16
Level 1: 12
Level 2: 10
Level 3: 8
Level 4: 7
Level 5: 6
Level 6: 6
Level 7: 5
Drache (Lake Jynn):
Level 0: 8
Level 1:
Level 2: 5
Level 3: 4
Level 4: 4
Level 5: 3
Level 6: 3
Level 7: 3
Barukon Gelede: HP: Core - 1866
Buster:
Level 0: 87 maybe
Level 1: 59
Level 2: 47 maybe
Level 3: 40
Level 4: 35 maybe
Level 5: 28
Level 6:
Level 7: Can't hit
Barukon Gelede: HP: Arm - 1024
Buster:
Level 0: 47 maybe
Level 1: 32 maybe
Level 2: 25
Level 3: 23
Level 4: 19 maybe
Level 5: 15
Level 6: 16??
Level 7: 13 maybe
Barukon Gelede: HP: Gun Battery - 576
Buster:
Level 0: 24 maybe
Level 1: 17
Level 2: 15 maybe
Level 3: 12
Level 4: 11
Level 5: 7
Level 6: 7
Level 7: Can't hit







 

[demonfang178]

Smash 4, trying out Skullgirls for a week, using the next week to find out that Skullgirls isn't for me, work, and reading.  Yeah, those sound like a valid excuse for being a week late.

Only proceeded as far as the Geselschaft this time and I found out that Sharukurusus DO NOT take more damage when cloaked.  Not sure where I got that idea.  Also, Garudoriten (the Lake Jynn Ruins Boss) holds its head if you deal high damage quick enough.  I am sure if that's to stop rapid shots or if it's signify a critical hit,but I'll redo that one entirely.  Being the person doing this guide, I probably should know that, but I'll get to it on my next playthrough.  Also, Gorubeshu (the sniper joe enemy with a sombero) are brought down quicker if you deal consistent damage.  Naturally, that skews results a bit so I'll deal with that later too.  Lastly, Fokkerwolf (the red robot fought after the Geselschaft) possibly has a weak spot or at least a critical hit opportunity.  I am guessing it happens when it flies naturally, but I didn't notice this until my fifth run and I was tired by then.

Red Zakobon: HP: 448
Buster:
Level 0: 19
Level 1: 14
Level 2: 12
Level 3: 9
Level 4: 8
Level 5: 7
Level 6: 7
Level 7: 5
GuruGuru: HP: 512
Rapid Shots knock them down quicker
Buster:
Level 0: 22
Level 1: 16
Level 2: 13
Level 3: 11
Level 4: 10
Level 5: 8
Level 6: 8
Level 7: 6
Sharukurusu (Lake Jynn): HP: 672
Buster:
Level 0: 28
Level 1: 21
Level 2: 17
Level 3: 14
Level 4: 12
Level 5: 11
Level 6: 10
Level 7: 8
Firushudot: HP: 512
Buster:
Level 0: 19
Level 1: 16
Level 2: 14
Level 3: 11
Level 4: 9
Level 5: 8
Level 6: 8
Level 7: 6

Sharukurusu (Clozer Ruins): HP: 2048.
Buster:
Level 0: 29
Level 1: 23
Level 2: 17
Level 3: 14
Level 4: 12
Level 5: 10
Level 6: 9
Level 7: 8
Cannam: HP: 1280
Level 0: 52
Level 1: 40
Level 2: 32
Level 3: 27
Level 4: 23
Level 5: 19
Level 6: 17
Level 7: 15
Karumuna Bash: HP: 1728
Buster:
Level 0: 75
Level 1: 53
Level 2: 44
Level 3: 35
Level 4: 28
Level 5: 27
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 20

Gray Drache HP: 512
Buster:
Level 0: 22
Level 1: 16
Level 2: 13
Level 3: 11
Level 4: 10
Level 5: 7
Level 6: 7
Level 7: 6
Gesellschaft: HP: Bonne Emblem: 1600
Buster:
Level 0: 66
Level 1: 50
Level 2: 40
Level 3: 34
Level 4: 32
Level 5: 26
Level 6: 25
Level 7: 18
Each Wing : 1280
Buster:
Level 0: 52
Level 1: 36
Level 2: 31
Level 3: 27
Level 4: 22
Level 5: 20
Level 6: 18
Level 7: 16
Gun Battery: 272
Buster:
Level 0:
Level 1: 12
Level 2: 9
Level 3: 7
Level 4: 5
Level 5: 5
Level 6: 4
Level 7: 4
Ship's Underside - 1024
Buster:
Level 0: 41
Level 1: 32
Level 2: 26
Level 3: 23
Level 4: 21
Level 5: 17
Level 6: 16
Level 7: 15

[Chiz]

Assuming a reasonable degree of human error in counting registered shots (which would deviate from shots fired unless EXTREMELY careful), except in select instances (weaknesses?) your data seems to fit the following:

Where L represents buster level, and D(L) is damage done; D(L) = 8L+24 = 8(L+3)

8 and 24 are really nice numbers for a programmer to work with, too.

EDIT: The only outlier is the Sharukurusu from Clozer Woods which you listed as 2048 HP; only the big ones in the Sub Gates have that many HP, and all ones elsewhere are still only 672. The fact that the shot counts differ ±1 seems to lend credence to the possibility that the shot counts are largely okay, but many are slightly flawed.

[demonfang178]

I see. I'll have to be more careful about counting the shots. I'll definitely keep that formula mind for the next update.

Mind if I rely on you again when I move to the special weapons assuming their numbers are as nice to work with?

[Chiz]

I don't see why not. My suggestion would be to take 6-8 specific enemies (of at least 500 HP), and do shot counts at least twice for each of the 6-8 for each attack level. That would provide a solid data set for mapping out what formulae they use, too.

[demonfang178]

Exceptionally sound and solid advice.

[demonfang178]

Sorry. Laptop was in the shop. Probably won't have a significant update until the week after next.

Anyway, I am going to be honest; it's been a few years since I have done an equation...at all.

If L is Buster Level and D (not D(L)) is damage done, then in the case of L being 3 won't damage done be 16? And in the case of L being 4, damage done would be 14?

[Chiz]

May 7, 2014 17:06:17 GMT -5 demonfang178 said:

If L is Buster Level and D (not D(L)) is damage done, then in the case of L being 3 won't damage done be 16? And in the case of L being 4, damage done would be 14?

The reason I say D(L) and not just D is because damage dealt is entirely dependent on buster level (L).

I'm not sure where you're getting the points 3,16 and 4,14, though. If L = 3, D(3) = 48. If L = 4, D(4) = 56.

---

In Javascript-esque code, for anyone more familiar with that:
function calcDamage(weaponLevel){
 var damage = 8 * weaponLevel + 24;
 return damage;
}

calcDamage(3); // Returns 48
calcDamage(4); // Returns 56


[demonfang178]

I see, but that can't be per shot. So what is it based on?

The 16 and 14 came from dividing 3 into 48 and 4 into 56, respectively.