Creating a planet (Elysium theories)

[satoh]

Jul 9, 2013 7:00:58 GMT -5 proudone said:

Jul 9, 2013 2:11:54 GMT -5 satoh said:

That's how I see Elysium. A prison planet, built to save humanity from free will.

...

It would explain the creation of a fortress world protected by near-human robots that could more closely relate to humans. Trigger would, as we know, be tasked with destroying aberrant units that somehow found their way to Elysium. I'm assuming that's why there's so many Reaverbots in the defense zone and so few in the Habitat zone. They just started accumulating there when Trigger was left on Earth and could no longer do the housekeeping.

...

It may be a topic for a different discussion, but I'd like to clear up something about the system Units. In my opinion they are as much organic as they are mechanical. I think they're basically like Reploids in the ZX series, they are living things with organic components, but they are capable of incorporating mechanical devices into their root body structure. Even in the X series reploids had "DNA" which didn't seem to be exactly like human DNA but did seem to fill the same role. The system units, I feel, are the same. Living beings with organs and DNA, but built out of mechanical parts. So in the end, the true Humans were being ruled by artificial humans.

When you consider it that way, humans, who have the capacity to want things, are denied the ability to get them with their own power, and machines that are mostly devoid of those desires, but are allowed to use the skills they have...
Humans are denied the use of their abilities, and machines are denied the desire to use their abilities. From this standpoint, the humans, or rather the Master, rebelled, becoming 'aberrant' himself, except that because he is not under direct mental control of the system, the term cannot e applied to him. I think perhaps this is why reavers themselves become aberrant--they have all the programming required to develop personalities, but the system denies them the right. So in the end the downfall of Elysium's Master System, was the Master System itself, by denying the rights of both the enforcers and the citizens.

As for why Elysium exists... I think it was probably built some time after ZX, to save the human race from total extinction by integration. In ZX it is mentioned that almost no one exists that does not have both reploid and human components in their body.
I think there were likely some who feared the human race being swallowed up by the 'humanoid' race, and built a haven, with pure reploid style units as guards for pure human beings.

By extension, I think the Master, when he created the Betas, used reaver technology in conjunction with reploid android technology, to create a new 'humanoid' race, much like the one that humans had fled, and he saw that they were functionally less durable than the humans protected by the system, but were more fulfilled as their personalities evolved from proto-androids into fully articulate beings. (They were most likely IMO, just androids like the system had, but with extremely loose directives. Instead of being tasked with "running this machine in this facility for this many hours each day" they were given the order to "manage the Terra system" and set loose to do it however they chose.)

What all this means is that basically, Elysium was a sort of human zoo. The system was meant to keep humans happy and healthy and away from harm, but they were robbed of their humanity itself. Stasis is not life. Survival is not living.
Another impression I got about the Master System and Elysium, is that they were populated with many many Megamen. Some people seem to believe that there were only as many system units as we see in the games, or at least that's how they seem from my seat, but that doesn't fit with the implied data in the series.

For example, a caste system is pointless when it only applies to something like 6 people and each one has its own unique caste. However, if there are 600 people, and only 6 castes, then the hierarchy works.
Also, we see that there are 3rd class units, and 1st class units, and units (apparently) beyond those classes, but we never see anything 2nd Class. (Unless the servitors or mothers are 2nd class... but that seems to go against the logic of the game since it seemed like Sera considered Purifier 1st Class Trigger, to be of lower rank than she)

So lets assume there were... I don't know... 5000 humans at first. Well that's a lot of work so you'd need at least one android per ten humans to manage everything, so that's at least 500 System units.

I assume there were so many Humans because it makes no sense to build a city the size of the moon, for 2 or 3 people. (The moon is massive remember. Even just covering the surface with living space would be a larger city than the largest city on earth today)

Now, what about the rest of the System, which is part of Elysium, like the Eden system. I think something caused a calamity on the earth that made it unlivable for organic beings (humans reploids humanoids alike) so part of the system was to restore the planet to life, using fully mechanical androids and robots. The other half of the system was protecting the humans on Elysium. (whether or not humans had fled there to escape integration is irrelevant to this point) Reploids of course, could always be replaced, as they were built initially from parts. They reproduced by this point, not terribly differently from humans, but humans could not simply be fabricated to create a new species. Elysium had that purpose: to record human DNA and memetic legacy, in order to repopulate the planet when it was livable again.

The Reinitialization program was probably intended to wipe out the terraforming systems, to make the planet a clean slate for humanity and the Master system to build upon when the time came.

Anyway I'm losing track of my thoughts and probably rambling by now, but essentially, Elysium was a haven, a command center, and a prison, all for a single purpose: Put people back on the lower world, and force them to live peacefully...but that plan never came to fruition because things went awry and all the humans died, and there was a rebellion of one of the System's more important units.

EDIT:
And as a consequence, Megaman committed genocide. He destroyed all remaining traces of the human race, save for the Master's DNA, which may still be with Data.

[Rockman Striker]

Very interesting points of view, but it really hurts me to ask you to stop this rambling, we're getting out of topic here, I know I'm not an admin, but I knew from the beginning that this topic would end in theories about how the humans died, the purpose of the system and so on.
I beg you to stay on topic, I'll open another thread to discuss those theories later.

So if you still have something to say regarding this topic, go on; if the are no more comments I'll proceed to open another topic.

Thanks for understanding.

[satoh]

Well, I will say this about the defense area... It most likely existed to for the sake of keeping invaders out of the important parts of the city... This means Elysium was probably built when there was some form of outside threat, or, the builders were really paranoid about aberrants from within the city itself.

That's the area where the gravity controls are right? It seems like the gravity might be 1/6 when set to low... (or it might only be 1/2, I don't know exactly) assuming its 1/6, that would mean Elysium is supported by its own gravity field, equivalent to the moon's. Considering there weren't many enemies (not really) in the defense area, it seems more likely that it was meant as a muster area for drills and training and gearing up Purifiers to go on aberrant executions.

There do seem to be some amount of natural life, but the only bit we see is grass, and even that could be fake. I don't see many animals as being likely on Elysium, not real living ones anyway. I think there may have been simulated life, like holograms or robotic animals.

If we assume any of Capcom's promo art is trustworthy, there may also have been festivals (there is an image of Sera and Yuna in festival hapi), meaning that life there wasn't completely devoid of entertainment...

Elysium's residential area is composed of islands linked by teleporters (and I believe they're in a mock ocean as I recall?). It seems like there were likely artificial environments in the Human sectors.
The Master's home was a large building that seemed like it likely had many more rooms than we see in the game itself (for one thing there was nothing resembling a bed or even a sleep pod or anything).
The Master is shown looking at a screen depicting Terra's city at night, so it seems as though Elysium's surveillance equipment was pretty good, and not off limits to those who lived there.

I got the impression that Elysium was 'asleep' when you visit it in MML2, due to the lack of generally anything at all to see aside from one or two defense machines... much like the reaverbots in the first ruin in MML1 were 'asleep' until you approached them.

Being a space station, it would have to have a self sustaining power station, and Geets suggests they can manufacture refractors, which may actually be true, unless they used Terra's refractor facility as their power supply depot.

The Master created the Betas, meaning there is also likely some large scale factory for building or fabricating replacement system units there as well. It was most likely managed by other system units, possibly a 4th class of unit, or maybe the missing 2nd class.

A large portion of the Elysium that we see is pure metal and circuitry architecture, which leads me to believe that humans probably weren't expected to be there much. (this is much like how it was in the X series, where Reploids did most of the hard work and humans sat around being feeble) The master himself states that the betas lives are fulfilled because they have to work for their prosperity, lending credence to the idea that the humans on Elysium did not have responsibilities.

The function of the Library seems to be the storage of human genetic and memetic information, but also probably contained the collective knowledge of the Master System, considering it was treated as the heart of Elysium. It seems like storage of memories was common in Elysium, whether that was limited to units' programs or human memories as well. (I got the Impression that human personalities might be stored with their DNA)

Trigger seems to have created quite a large amount of trouble, and built data seemingly without being noticed, so it seems like Elysium's internal security is not all knowing.
Sera claims that she followed the system very avidly, meaning the system units may have a degree of free will in how hard they work, and also suggesting that Sera herself was not limited to controlling numbers and delegating tasks to other units... She may have had active functions. She also seems to have been relatively close to the Master, so system units may have lived side by side with the humans in Elysium... but there's no evidence to suggest or refute that they were equals. System units seem to be treated like working class citizens, but that may simply be the impression because they actually did do all the work.

My theory is that system units were probably lower class than Humans, but at the same time, Humans were not allowed to do anything.

There are reavers roaming freely in the fields of the Residential area, they don't seem to serve any real purpose other than to slow the player down, (they're agressive, but only at close range...) they seem to just run around in circles all day. It seems likely that these reavers had some mundane purpose like taking care of the artificial environment.

There doesn't seem to be a lot of color in Elysium, but that can't be entirely the case, since even the defense machines are brightly colored when there's no tactical advantage to it.
There is a dock and spaceport, meaning trips to and from Terra may have been frequent, for certain units. It doesn't seem logical to build a large dock if you only plan to have one small shuttle-pod.

I recall the Master being about 3000 years old (I don't remember where I heard that figure) suggesting that there was likely a facility for healthcare, but not one that involved much body strain... probably some sort of chambre that simply 'fixed' bodily damage.

Considering Data's healing and the Servitors' mechanical integration abilities, it seems likely that there were healing facilities for humans and androids alike, and probably very advanced ones that fit in a small space. Carbons can be repaired by mechanical integration (and even simply robotic parts), which adds credence to the idea that the system units are not so different from ordinary organic beings (and also that carbons are not entirely organic like humans) but that's a slight tangent.

Elysium seems to be strangely devoid of most of the System symbols that seem to be prevalent everywhere else (even being tattooed in the skin of the Mothers and Servitors), which in itself is odd. I'm not sure what use that is, but it's worth noting.

Annnd... I think that's as far as I can go without getting into another ramble.

Hope it helps a bit more than my last post, which admittedly got out of hand.

[Rockman Striker]

About reaverbots, they were programmed by the system, so the people or units on Elysium may have had some control over smaller varieties, Horokkos for example, that would explain why there were reaverbots roaming around residential area's houses, like some sort of Guardian dogs, but a perfect society has no thiefs, so they were probably defending the house from aberrant reavers; it would also explain why there were those winged reavers only outside the Master's house.

Speaking of which, we've never seen an aberrant reaver in game, I'm very sure every Reaverbot encountered on ruins are perfectly functional because they're doing their job, attack any intruder; I guess someone could tell when a reaver had become aberrant when it disobeyed direct orders, started attacking other units or reavers, or maybe their behavior changed, like if a Reaverbot had some sort of tic.

[Avegodro]

Well Elysium was built to keep the last of humanity safe, every aspect of the place was controlled. Weather, gravity were mere tools to control for the system, a simple flick of a switch and you could do whatever you wanted. Just look at the rest of the robotic timeline, they had all sorts of crazy gizmos and bots for stuff.

You can see multiple examples of artificial plant and animal life in the other games, so I would think that they would take that route when having any plants or animals there. Cloning plants or animals could be another option to, probably could change the genetics of them to keep out any undesirable results. Also the world had been turned into a desolate wasteland a few times over and then flooded, I would think it would be hard to find animals and plants en-mass.

Elysium was the heart of the system with the Master at it's helm. He lived as a god basically, the carbons on earth see the Mother units as goddesses due to the power they wielded. They served and cared for the Master, he was a god. Least that's the way I see it, just all sorts of unimaginable technology at his fingertips. He created an entire city of modified Betas (Carbons), guy can create life in any shape he wishes. Though Sera probably wasn't to pleased at times with him doing stuff like that.

The Leebirds seem to be just the security of the joint, keeping the riffraff out and the halls clean. Sure we've never really seen any aberrant units, probably have been a few though, the only real 'aberrant' units I've seen are the carbons. Always poking around in the ruins and overpopulating their islands.

EDIT- Also one last thing I would like to make note of is the whole Elysium = Terra's moon.

	The moon over Terra.
	Elysium.

I don't see it them being the same objects. Only way I can think of them being the same is if they did use the moon and have Elysium just have an image of the moon upon it's surface. Doesn't make a lot of sense though.

[satoh]

we don't know for certain Terra only has one moon... In fact this is really the only scene in the entire series that takes place at night to begin with...
And also as I recall, Elysium is called 'moon' at least once in the game.

Its also likely that they weren't really paying close attention when they made that scene, or that it was made prior to the rest of the game involving Elysium.

[Avegodro]

I've never seen Terra have a second moon in any installment of the robotic timeline. I'd just assume Elysium is a orbital station, sure have a lot of those, most of them from Dr. Wily. 

[satoh]

Aug 23, 2013 16:31:11 GMT -5 Avegodro said:

I've never seen Terra have a second moon in any installment of the robotic timeline. I'd just assume Elysium is a orbital station, sure have a lot of those, most of them from Dr. Wily. 

A moon is a small round celestial body that orbits a planet. Elysium is a small round celestial body that orbits Terra.
Elysium may not have replaced Luna, but it is a moon.
It is also a space station, completely artificial as I see it, but it still qualifies as a moon. Its an artificial moon, which I believe is how it was referred to, in one scene... but I don't have the patience to sit through an entire LongPlay just to find it.

[Avegodro]

No worries satoh, I checked the scripts hosted on the site here and 'moon' is only mentioned in MML when looking at the moon sculpture in Barrel's room. Moons are natural celestial bodies, Elysium is artificial space colony, it's close enough to be seen like our moon.