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Post by fAB on Apr 27, 2005 13:51:34 GMT -5
This may seem rather out of the blue considering the forums are on a pretty positive roll at the moment, but something has occurred to me... Despite coming up with the most thorough and extensive set of rules and guidelines I've ever seen, there are, naturally, always going to be some problems. Two such problems are:
1. The forum staff are still kept busy dealing with SPAMming idiots who don't read the rules, and don't learn their lesson. 2. Piles of members sign up but never post. --Not really a problem, but rather annoying.
I'd never considered it before, but I realized recently that disabling sign-ups could help both of these things to some extent. Disabling sign-ups means that in order to become a member, interested persons would have to contact me directly and ask for permission. This would however, be a pretty drastic change, and that's why I want to get everyone's opinion on this.
Pros: + Members looking to join would have to confirm that they have read the rules, understand them, and agree to follow them. + New members who bother going through this extra step are more likely interested in actually being an active member. + Assuming member quality improves, the mods have less work to do and can post more instead of using their forum time for duty.
Cons: - Those intimidated by the idea of joining a forum or message board might decide it's not worth it. - Those who feel the rules are too strict would not want to join (though this could be a pro as well as a con).
So, please vote and comment. Feel free to suggest more pros, cons, if you think of any, etc.
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Post by lloyd on Apr 27, 2005 14:15:35 GMT -5
I agree... I'm having trouble introducing all the new members bomabarding the forums so quickly... Though, the forums could become famous and something great... The forums might need some new things happening though... It really is hard! <_< >_>I might help the situation...
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Post by pitch on Apr 27, 2005 14:21:18 GMT -5
Keep it simple and I don't see how it could do any harm. Just don't make it an excessively long process, and people should have no problem with it.
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Post by lloyd on Apr 27, 2005 14:24:45 GMT -5
fab just said something about too much members doing bad stuff. Too much members doing bad stuff would drive all the mods and fab nuts! Fab and the mods are looking over, like, a 300 members here!
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Post by Fire Griffin on Apr 27, 2005 15:06:24 GMT -5
I am shaky.
To be honest with you, I wouldn't have signed up here if I had to go through that. Lemme get one thing clear across:
I. Am. Shy.
You have no idea. I was poking around this forum I had an account with for over several months. Not even 10 posts yet because I'm so shy and lurky. Hell, I was shy about posting to Gaia, probably one of the places you should be not be so concerned about first impressions - so many people, who gives a toss?
Anyway, in a fandom that is needing a few more good men (sorry, couldn't resist), I'm afraid that not only will this filter out the bad/dumb apples, but the potential good members as well.
A system I've seen in another forum, which I hope the latest version of Proboards might implement - but you know better than me, I would say, is that you need to post once on a certain board before you can gain access to the other forums. Maybe, should this be possible someday:
1. Members have to sign up. 2. Members can only post in one forum, which would be a locked new-topics forum with only the rules thread in it. Users would have to post there stating they've read the rules (which would be done with a keyword in the rules) before gaining forum access. 3. Forum access granted.
I am aware of the holes but I am too lazy to patch it over at the moment - on second thought, this system would not really work too well here because I think those are too many hoops to program and bother people with.
My solution? Should you have to resort to making the board a sign-up e-mail kind of thing, keyword the rules. If they don't and ask anyway, you can tell them to read the damn thing. Some people are accident prone like I am and forget, but you can usually tell who have about half a brain and who reeks of stupid.
I am a little hesistant about resorting to this, seeing that we might lose some good with the bad. I guess you could say that I am against it for shy doinks everywhere, if you don't want people straddling the fence.
*hic*
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Post by Buster Cannon on Apr 27, 2005 15:24:36 GMT -5
Keep it simple and I don't see how it could do any harm. Just don't make it an excessively long process, and people should have no problem with it.
Same here. It might help the situation, I mean, if a person was a true legends fan, they'd sign up no matter what. This would filter out the 'bad eggs' who's life centers around mayhem. As for those members who never post, it's probably the password thing.
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Post by JMC47 on Apr 27, 2005 16:12:57 GMT -5
Umm, this is very complicated, very complicated. Here is what I think
First off, I would of never of signed up if I had to of done that, because, this was my first forum, and I was shy.
It would filter out bad eggs, like the fades out there, but some don't read the rules even if they would do that.
Other members that would be great would never sign up, they would think the forum would be too strict. (Just because of the way they sign up)
If there is no other choice, than let it be, but there are other ways, more mods would spread out how many each mod would have to deal with in theory, but most likely it would have no effect.
You could also make a rule about people who spam in there first couple posts or make no sense then.
I don't know, but disabling sign up may be to harsh, or going to far at this point. If it gets worse, I may change my mind, but at the current state of the forum, I am against taking out signing up the regular way.
BTW, lloyd, you don't have to introduce all the members you know.
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Post by pitch on Apr 27, 2005 16:31:26 GMT -5
Well, perhaps the Moderating Staff should be bigger to better address the n00b/spam problem. You poor guys/girl seem to handle way more than four people should have to handle here.
As for the people joining who never post... maybe a customary "Welcome" PM to members who join would help some. Even though that sorta thing belongs in introductions... a lotta people get an email whenever they receive a PM so were they to notice that and take the time to read it, they might get more into it.
Of course, this is just if the Disabling of New Members can't happen. Just my 2% of a dollar.
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Apr 27, 2005 17:19:27 GMT -5
Eh, I’m with FG on this. I probably wouldn’t have joined if such measures had been implemented (though I’m not sure that that’d be a negative...). Really, this would serve more to keep people who never post away, but not really SPAMers. I mean, someone like Ally would probably be able to gain access whereas someone such as FG might not even join. It might mean that things would be tipped towards SPAMers, unless you plan to judge them by their email (If it smells of SPAM, no entry).
As for other solutions… Meh… Maybe require them to post an intro or post x number of times before they’re allowed to start threads (though I suppose most SPAM comes from random posts, not the starting of threads. And some members wouldn’t be able to ask questions until a certain point which would be annoying. I suppose they could just PM someone, but still… I'm not sure of such a plan).
Also, taking out some members early on could take out a potentially good member. Heck, I’m sure I looked like a genius after posting my intro in the wrong section, and had things been judged simply by that I might not be here. I mean, there are systems that larger forums use such as user moderation and meta-moderation, but I’m not sure that such systems would work here.
Maybe, though I suppose this seems somewhat harsh coming from a mere, and mostly lazy, member, the Mods should just live with it. I mean, its part of the job. A trash collector can’t complain to people and tell them to put out less trash. A mods responsibility is to keep the forums SPAM-free, but not at the cost of a forums well-being. That’d be like using a bomb in the middle of a populated city. Oh sure, the enemy will be gone, but how many innocents will die in the process?
I know the mods work hard, and I appreciate that, but it’s in the job description. A teacher doesn’t go into the job and then say, “So… I don’t have to teach right? I’m just here for the doughnuts”. It’d be wonderful if there was some way to stop SPAM, to force members to follow the rules, and to bring peace to the forums without any cons. I don’t doubt that a lot of hard work is being done here, but such is the life of a mod. In return for the respect and the flashy symbols, the forum is kept SPAM free. We respect you guys because of the hard work and dedication you put into these forums, but implementing a rule that may not only keep good members away, but backfire just doesn’t seem wise… … something tells me the staff isn’t going to be to fond of me from now on…
I suppose that you could try it for a while to see how it goes, but I’m just not so sure about it. Really, there is no way to truly get rid of SPAMers without killing others except for the old fashioned weed through it yourself approach. If there was, we’d all know of it by now. As for adding new mods, I suppose that could work. The more people you have, the easier things will get. Pitch seems to be a good member and possible candidate if need be. There’s also JMC, but methinks MMLE has him overworked as is. Mltmlt is an excellent member… I could go on and list a bunch of people, but I suppose I’ll leave it to the staff to decide.
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Post by aarond on Apr 27, 2005 19:32:06 GMT -5
This should be an all-inclusive community, not an exclusive one. True, it's important for people to take part and participate in things the way that they are supposed to do so, but it's a little overly complicated to force them to jump through hoops to join the fan community.
For instance, if I had seen that I would have had to been "invited," per se, to join MMLS Forums, I would have just said, "Screw this," and moved on. Most people would also do so.
So, by limiting memberships, you would assure that only the die-hard fanboys would be signing up, and not everyday people that happen to enjoy the MML series. KnowwhutImean?
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Post by Notmyname on Apr 27, 2005 19:39:18 GMT -5
Thats REDICULESS. Disabling signups would create extreme confusion, and any potential member will leave before even seeing all of the forums. Nobody reads the rules that densly, and some, don't read them at all(which would filter out the fades, but almost everyone else too.)
It sucks that this forum type doesn't have notification by email when a user has been inactive for a piriod of times. That is one of the reasons i personally would have gone with phpbb... Its like the same thing in PHP rather than cgi, but a little bit less tendency for errors.
I checked out the live proboards 4 demo. Its cool, it has a calander, and members birthdates, and pretty soon its going to pass phpbb.
The version 4 demo is down, becuase of the full upgrade. the support forums header states:
"This forum will be going down for scheduled maintenance on Saturday, April 30th at approximately 5pm Pacific Daylight Time for the upgrade to ProBoards Version 4."
Yep, you here it people! its coming!
My vote: wouldn't have come if I had to go through that
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Apr 27, 2005 20:03:40 GMT -5
Simply no. I'm probaly one you want to not listen to since I'm spam warned, but I got to voice out. I am bad at first impressions[obviously]and its not a total fault. I can tell you a bunch of people would fail just because they are not so great at intros.
Also the idea sounds to long and obvioulsy turns people off. Maybe your right, maybe it would help in ways, but hear me out, it also may intemmedate people, sort of like Fire Griffin. She was shy. You don't know how freaked I was when I joined. My first posts were terrible. I hardly knew what to say. So I'm not for the idea. I'm sorry if that makes it harder for you and the moderators fab, but thats me.
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Post by pitch on Apr 27, 2005 20:40:59 GMT -5
Yeah I'm kinda leanin in the direction other people are now with this(I'm the one "Very Good Idea!" vote)... of course, I never even looked at the rules for anything aside from Signature and Avatar limits, so yeah I'm like kinda naturally against it, even though I wouldn't have to do anything ... maybe my opinion kinda doesn't matter. Had this disability of new members been here before I might not have joined, but that's just because the only reason I came to Legends Station to begin with was for some official art of Yuna. Once again, my opinion is null. Ultimately, I think it would be a blessing and a curse. If you're going to do it, though, just make it simple enough that it won't drive new people away. Once again my 2% of a dollar.
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Post by PharaohManXe54 on Apr 27, 2005 21:42:16 GMT -5
Hmmm..... quite a predicament. I think it might make things better, but the main concern I have with it is that it's more work for you , fab! I know for a fact that if you would have included something like "Just e-mail me for access. This is used only so that people actually read the rules. If you just follow the rules (which really isn't too much to ask) you'll be fine! We are an accepting group! Come, join us!" I would totally join. Another concern I have is that the members wouldn't gain access RIGHT away. So, yeah, I'm gonna vote "might make things better" but if there was a neutral option, I'd go with that.
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Post by Chiz on Apr 28, 2005 4:41:26 GMT -5
MMLS's Member Count: 151 Members w/ post count under 20: 61 (figure may be slightly off)
---That's 40% of the signups! (Post count under 20 includes new signups, but still...)
I'm definitely for making signing up harder (not disabling completely, just making it harder). I'm also for this idea - eliminating accounts that go idle for more than 2 weeks. I make a habit of posting AT LEAST once every 3 days...if I have the opportunity to, everyone else should be able to. If users don't care to participate anymore, then why should they clutter up the members list? (May sound a bit mean...)
Anyways...that's my thoughts on the issue.
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