MayImilae
Zakobon
Badgeless, and proud of it!
Posts: 145
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Post by MayImilae on May 14, 2009 23:53:11 GMT -5
It isn't a little thing. This IRC is claiming the identity of MMLS, yet the owners of MMLS have no control over it. It doesn't matter if it makes no direct claim to it, even if it sets up a disclaimer, by simply having that name it is making the claim that it is related to MMLS. Imagine someone gets into a fight on this unsanctioned IRC. They would drag it here. Furthermore, if they think that it is tied to MMLS, and by sharing the same name I guarantee you they will, they will come and bug chiz to fix it. All when the MMLS staff has absolutely no say in what is going on.
Whoever made this channel should have asked first. Period. To my knowledge, the MMLS staff isn't really IRC active, so none of them would have the time or inclination to run such a place. I'm sure that the intention was just to make a channel for MMLS users to enjoy and to do it without bothering the staff here with more responsibilities. However, using the name and not even claiming to be unofficial, all without asking, is wrong. It is claiming a direct relation to this site where no such relation exists.
The right way to go about such a thing would have been to ask first. "I think the MMLS could really use an IRC channel." "We don't want to run it." "Well I'll run it, with your supervision of course." "Go for it." That is how he should have gone about it, and how I think it would have gone down. Why would they turn down a chance to expand and fill something people want, without having added responsibility? But the key to that is that he asked and that the is allowing the MMLS operators a role to supervise it and shut it down if there was a problem.
My advice to the founder of that IRC: should shut it down immediately, then ask Fab and the MMLS staff if they are willing to allow him to run an IRC in their name. If they say no, then make one with your own name and no affiliation with MMLS.
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Post by mirak on May 15, 2009 0:16:51 GMT -5
Hey, dudes, this is *not* identity theft, ok? I don't catch the fervor of treating this place as a big company, please turn the fan over to my side so i can feel the breeze because i still can't appreciate the passion.
To begin with: "Legends Station" is not a name which explicitly saves itself for the megaman legends universe, that would be seen as something valid by people who does not frequent this site, so if you want to talk about this, i suggest you don't.
What you said would still happen even if you didn't want to. Sometimes it simply happens: You try to join some site and your nickname has already been chosen, even if this person who chose the same nickname (as original or creative it is) did a crime or disaster so big that it would forever stain that name, you wouldn't be able to do much about it nor people would take it against you just because you happened to have a similar name.
Now, it's understandable that it's a concern just because that irc channel was created and is displayed on this board by a member of this forum, but what i meant by "little thing" is that it's being put as something that could bring a potential disaster or threat, something so dangerous or venomous that could frame the source website with defamation. In other words, chill out, is not a big deal.
A "next time ask first" is enhough, i don't see why the fuss about it. I think it would be unfair for the OP to close the channel, just adding a disclaimer (and a few rules ofr the IRC, like the always functional use of the "whatever happens here stays here" rule) is enhough. If people are so mentally uncapable as to not being able to read the disclaimer of the irc before trying to even engage in conversation (which by the way, i see the commotion and fear of disaster as a little of unwarranted self importance, since hardly two to three members will be on at the same time, however you want to put it) then i don't see a reason why they should be members of this site in the first place, by the time they managed to get to the irc they will have been probably banned here already.
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duo
Gorubeshu
Posts: 261
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Post by duo on May 15, 2009 1:39:23 GMT -5
This was nice. And I thought mirak didn't like me because of my feelings toward game maker.
I should have asked the owners of this site, especially before advertising it . They might have preferred it set up one way or another. I didn't think about it , well, actually, I didn't think anyone would even pay attention. That's what mirak is getting at; the number or regular members is low. There isn't enough traffic through here to cause the cataclysm that major is prophesying.
Anyway, I wanted the irc mainly to discuss fan game development, which is why I registered on freenode, a programming chat server. This way people can ask for programming help on the other channels while talking about legends fan games specifically on the legends-station channel.
Besides all that, I don't see the point in being so severe with the regular members of the forum that are still here. If you keep crushing us, you'll have nothing left.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot the news. Five members were on board the channel today, and a cool legends game concept was shown!
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Post by mirak on May 15, 2009 1:51:01 GMT -5
Duo, if you want information on Legends Fangame production status, you can always just ask for our MSN/aim/deviantart's, most of us are glad to share info about updates and the sort, and it's usually better to make conferences on msn where we don't save a log of our chat for all the public to see rather than use a web based chat. EDIT: EDIT: Oh, I forgot the news. Five members were on board the channel today, and a cool legends game concept was shown! You know, i don't think i'm using that web application correctly, because when i clicked on it it asked me for a nickname and a channel, i typed #legends-station on it by the nickname of Mirak and i was online ever since you put this up, but no one showed up. Maybe i'm doing something wrong here.
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Post by in·clover on May 15, 2009 2:03:56 GMT -5
I think for the most part we're all adults here, and I seriously doubt anyone's gonna start linking to child pornography or snuff films or something equally illegal and get this site into any trouble. The worst that could happen is a few members getting into a quarrel or something, and that isn't any different than what's happening now.
He should've, probably, but who cares and why?
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Post by mirak on May 15, 2009 2:12:37 GMT -5
Oh lord, i hope this question doesn't unleash the ƒ#&$%!@ fury again.
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MayImilae
Zakobon
Badgeless, and proud of it!
Posts: 145
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Post by MayImilae on May 15, 2009 2:25:15 GMT -5
I am sure your goals and intentions were fine, Duo. I didn't call that into question. But by using MMLS's name you were implying that MMLS had a hand in it's creation and it's management, and as such things are going to spill into here. And Mir@k, this forum has some of the best members of any forum around, but even the best of forums can have little scuffles. You can't just say it won't happen and lower your defenses. People aren't perfect, and a forum is a group of people; therefore the forum can't be perfect. MMLS needs to be prepared and ready for potential problems, otherwise the staff will get caught off guard and they will escalate. And as smart staffers they are doing that already, as is shown by Chiz's disclaimer. They can't just assume that all troublemakers were banned already and as such the world is a nice perfect little place. There will always be that potential for a big problem. It is all about being prepared without being paranoid. Distancing from an unofficial IRC channel is simply prudent. This isn't some random person without knowledge of the legends station. Duo is a member here, made it with the name of a site he is familiar with, and then immediately after its creation advertised it on said site. There is no question: this was intended as the MMLS IRC. But this MMLS IRC is being run and advertised on MMLS without the consent of the MMLS staff, and therefore is not affiliated. And no matter how many disclaimers are placed, things could happen in that IRC that negitively effect this forum and this site. It involves the same name and the same members: it is related whether Duo wants it or not. The question is not whether it is related, but whether the actions that take place in that IRC medium could harm this site and it's operations. I believe it can, because of the aforementioned reasons. I'm not staff, I'm just a regular member and can "crush" till the staff stop me . The staff has only done a basic disclaimer, nothing crushing whatsoever. In my opinion they are acting wisely by not engaging in debates or things of this nature. They will gather the evidence and act as they need to. My opinion is that they would be wise not to allow something in their name and related to their site to exist outside of their control, but that is just me. How they response is entirely up to them. That is curious. If you wanted to make the IRC for fangame discussion, why not just make your own? How is that in anyway related to MMLS? This makes me wonder if you called it #legends-station solely to increase traffic to your IRC. Still, I don't believe you had any dark intentions, but there is alot about this that I find unsettling. I highly advise you to get this checked out with Fab. Shutting down the IRC temporary may be a bit severe, but it is a act of good faith, to show you acknowledge the mistake of not asking him. You don't have to of course, but either way I highly suggest you send him a person mail informing him of this and requesting his input. EDIT*bows* Glad to oblige. And you know, I like that. ƒ#&$%!@ fury. *makes it his personal message* I won't respond to BRET's post because the answer to what he said is in that huge mess up above this, the stuff about being prepared and all. With one exception: MMLS should care because an entity with it's name and it's users is operating outside it's control and advertising on it's site. This could cause a splash back and harm it.
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Post by in·clover on May 15, 2009 2:37:17 GMT -5
I won't respond to BRET's post because the answer to what he said is in that huge mess up above this, the stuff about being prepared and all. Prepared for what is what I was asking. It's just a name, and I'm sure Chiz and everyone else knows this. A disclaimer is fine, but did fab have to ask Capcom's permission to create a website named after a few of their games? Nope. I bet he didn't. It's nothing. I just think it's silly your advice is to shut it down because it shares the same name.
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Post by mirak on May 15, 2009 2:51:31 GMT -5
OffT: About the disclaimer. I'm still wondering why won't some people just understand that this isn't a famous/big place chuck full with little idiots wreaking havock for no apparent reason and that they can loosen up the grip and simply put their feet on the table and relax with everyone instead of looking like... Dude i can't believe i'm scared to say what i feel, i hope the staff feels a little better now.
EDIT: You know what? Just forget i wrote this part, i always rant about it but i never really get a coherent response and i've learned just to not care anymore. Really, just forget it, i'm getting a little bit exhausted at yelling to the wall. The sound just rebounds, you know.
OnT: So he made an IRC, big deal, if it was my channel i'd have honestly flipped you the finger when you said "shut it down immediately", let's imagine for one second; Imagine if you had a website: "LeBench.com" or something, now imagine if you found an irc channel with that name on it. Thinking about making the creator shut down the channel just because it has the same name and you fear the content shown there might stain your website's name seems pretty stupid to me. Specially if the website that the pranksters inside the IRC should OH SO malintentionally be redirected to in order to be "mean people that represent the pits of despair" is filled with rules here and there and has active staff moderators and administrators that have a grim glee on their eyes as they go around enforcing them with a little too much enthusiasm. Is pointless to even think about it. I think you're thinking a little too deep on a matter that is quite simple: The IRC is not, by any means, forced to be closed nor it has to, as you said, but i still put on the table the fact that a little disclaimer and rules can solve everything, if that wasn't true, then this forum wouldn't have rules in the very first place, the rules can be enforced on the IRC as much as they can be enforced here, but then that would make it not chat friendly, right? Anybody could accidentally let a word that is on the world filter slip and the banhammer would be used. So yeah, the IRC is independent to this site, putting that disclaimer = Happy people.
EDIT: Wow, i'd wish i could resume my posts with a few sentences like B-r-e-t's.
EDIT2: Don't think so high of yourself. When i mentioned the fury i wasn't talking about you, i was actually speaking about an internet meme.
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Post by bdk336 on May 15, 2009 8:07:40 GMT -5
Unfortunately I can't use the IRC at school due to the web filter so I'll only be on after 4 EST on week days.
Also what if we were to just solve this issue by putting a disclaimer in the first post? Then no one will get confused and we can still have a nice time on the IRC.
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Post by fAB on May 15, 2009 9:38:05 GMT -5
Easy, people... In the technical sense I'd have to agree with MaJoR almost 100% as far as what's right and wrong, should have been done, etc. I think any intelligent person who can distance themselves from the situation and look at what he's saying will realize that it's filled with valid concerns.
In truth, my initial reaction when I saw that duo had created #legends-station was annoyance and a few thoughts along those lines myself. After about 2 minutes though, I simply shrugged and decided it was no big deal. Legends-Station is my site, I figured it was my place to be concerned or not, though as was pointed out, with the "come and bug chiz to fix it" possibility I think the staff here had every right to post a disclaimer and in fact I probably should have posted one myself.
As has also been stated, this is a small community. I'm in agreement with those who feel the disclaimer is good enough, and had it not gotten a negative reception in the first place I don't think the issue would have escalated as it did. Legends-Station.com links to the forums here, the forums have a link back to the main site, that's it. It should be clear enough that #legends-station is not officially affiliated with the site.
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Post by Pitch on May 15, 2009 12:54:37 GMT -5
Mir@k: I was technically "in" the channel all night long; if you weren't seeing anybody in there, there was definitely a problem. Did you set the server to Freenode? I really don't want to get involved in what's been going on here, but in all honesty, I'd be surprised if any of the staff would've even bothered posting in this thread had duo not gone ahead and set up teh channel. It still probably wasn't the best thing to do. Also, I had no idea the focus of this was meant to be fan game development.. ; Ah well.
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duo
Gorubeshu
Posts: 261
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Post by duo on May 17, 2009 23:26:48 GMT -5
I put the irc so I could discuss game development with people who are interested in that, but everyone else can use it for whatever they want. I won't yell at anybody;) Anyway, its a good way for people to get to know each other better than on the forum, if that's what they want.
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Tau
Cannam
Abridged the Series
Donation for ze little fr?ulein?
Posts: 345
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Post by Tau on Jun 5, 2009 22:01:35 GMT -5
Does anyone still hang around in the channel? Whenever I've checked it's been dead. Kind of disappointing after all the controversy.
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Post by Pitch on Jun 5, 2009 22:38:07 GMT -5
The controversy may be the reason some people aren't hopping in. Anywho, I pop in occasionally, but usually find it empty. I've only ever caught a few people in there; seems like the same handful all the time. I'm pretty sure most of the people here aren't much into IRC.
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