models!

[duo]

The health and weapon bars can also be used for a game. Here is an animated shield break of the healthbar ambyra.googlepages.com/HLT_BAR-break.avi



If anyone wants this stuff just send me a message.

[betaman]

The model is alright, but why would the health bar and weapons gauge need to be in 3D?

[Musashi]

His arm is waaaaaaay too short. Oh, and the health gauges and such look pretty cool.

[duo]

Some more, with the head done. The face is off the original mml game. I have the face as a different object from the head so that it can be animated, and the helmet can be changed:

[MayImilae]

Well, other people can give you the fake nice responses so I'll just be blunt and point out the flaws. Constructive critizism with a little fun .

Body: The proportions are all wrong. The thighs are too wide and tall, calfs look too tall, feet are a little small, the mid section between the chest and adomen is practically nonexistant, the chest is too tall, neck piece above the chest is way too thick, and that is just the start. The biggest flaw by far is the arms. Imagine someone in real life with arms that went to his belly button. Yea, you made that.

Head: Oye. Where to start. The "ears" are too high and too small. His face is a freakin ball. No jaw, no nose, no nothing. A ball with a face painted on it. Also the shape differences between the face and helmet aren't there: the face goes into the helmet without a lip or anything separating it from the helmet.

That is just what I can cover in my limited time. Maybe I can go back and highlight some more later.

[duo]

Okay, I based the body off the official pictures. I will see if I can't get the proportions more correct to the game. I can make the arm longer. However, you have to know this is for a game, not a cg model. In the game, the model will probably be half the size it is currently. The original model was the one below. Really low polygons! Mine is not so low, but the details (like to the helmet and jaw) won't be put it.

[MayImilae]

As someone who has modeled anime faces in high poly, I know from experience that the face needs to be carefully done. In anime, the chin is very limited, the nose is stylized with an almost non-existant bridge and a sharp tip, the brow is gentle, and the face is also rounder then standard human characteristics. Most importantly though, the eyes are HUGE. Regardless of anime or standard form, any model has to have some form of modeled facial characteristics, even at ps1 and N64 levels. Example: Goldeneye 007. Horrid faces, but, look.
Example
Nose, brow, chin and jaw are modeled. Crudely, but they are there. You can't just make the head a ball and expect to get away with having a good model. It won't go. Even with the crudest of models, the face has to be at least a resemblance of human form.

If you look, even the original model, with the face almost entirely textured, it has some brow and cheek structure. The structure of the face is more flat, in line with more human qualities. Furthermore, the helmet has definitive lines showing the distinct end of the face and start of the helmet.

So, your face is really just a ball with a smily-face on it. Not to say there aren't some stylized forms where they might work, but with Legends artwork? That just won't cut it. Stylization goes from human form to the stylized form. In this case, it goes from human form to anime form, with the alterations I mentioned above. A ball? Totally different stylized formula then what is used for anime. It doesn't work, period.

To make it work, you need to make the face more flat on the front, with some basic facial construction. Eyes would probably be too complex for you to model, same for the mouth, but the nose, brow, cheeks and some chin/jaw should have basic modeling. Nothing complicated, but close enough that it resembles human form. Then have a distinct change from the head to the helmet, to show that the helmet is put ontop of the head and doesn't come out of the head. Do that and it would be a huge improvement for the head and face.

As for the body... When making a model of something like this, the official art is your primary reference, not the original in game model. The ingame model was made from the reference art to fit limitations and goals you don't have. The official art is how it is supposed to look. This is important for the seperation between the adomen and chest. The ingame model and the official art are different here; the ingame model has no middle section, the chest piece connects the adomen and the middle piece is simply textured in. You saw the ingame model and thought in your brain that the chest piece connected to the adomen. But then you saw the official art and saw the seperation, so you tried to marry the difference by having the chest piece very large with almost no separation there, breaking how it looks. Just remember to base everything on the original artwork and you'll be fine.

There is alot more detail I can go into, but I think I've given you enough to read for now. Perhaps later?

EDIT: One more thing. Your polygon levels (CG vs. ingame models) have no impact on proportions. Proportions are just how parts relate to other parts. Flaw proportions in your 3d program translate directly into the engine. Add a meshsmooth to increase the polys and it will only get worse. Remember, you can't make good stylized proportions without understanding the original human proportions. So I would suggest you do a little study on anatomy, how long one thing is to another in human form, then compare it with the original in game model and official artwork. Then you can build the proportions you want and know exactly what you are doing where and why.

[duo]

Thanks Major! You're right about the face. All the way through I was trying to compare the game model to the artwork and come up with a model. The problem with the artwork is that there is no front flat view of megaman I can use. They're all 3/4 views that are projections, which is probably why I messed up the arm.

I know about proportions; I was trying to get away with no facial features like the playstation game. Maybe not so good. Also, the mesh smooth is done through the renderer, not on the model. The old body without smoothing has the same number of polygons as the smoothed one! blender and panda3d both support this feature, which is super cool.

I'll take a look at some more concept art and see if I can't straighten the proportions out. When I started modeling mm, he was my first human model and I was trying to go quickly through. I figured that I shouldn't spend more than a day or two on each model if I was ever going to get a game done. Unfortunately, with texture skins and rigging and animating and exporting, it takes a lot longer than a day or two!

I appreciate your critique!


EDIT:

After putting the two side by side, I noticed a lot of discrepancies. I really wish there was a front view I could find somewhere! Sorry for the bones sticking out.

[MayImilae]

Ah, the old side by side. You didn't do that already? *shrug* Well, you learned something then. Anime drawings suck as references, I know that first hand, but they are better then nothing. I still think you should get yourself some resources on anatomy and learn about what they changed and why. Obviously, megaman trigger isn't perfect human proportions. I could tell you how and why they did what they did right now but... what's the fun in that?

As for the meshsmoothing thing, yea, I know. I was referring to a modifier in 3ds max. It smooths the mesh not by smoothing the polys, but by actually adding polys. That was what I was referring to. Force of habit. The technical way to talk about smoothing polygons is to just call it "smoothing". Meshsmooth, Turbosmooth, etc etc are all addons in a per program basis.

[duo]

Here's some modifications. I used a cool fresnel shader.

[Dragge]

Doesn't look too bad. I don't know much about graphics or anything like that but it looks promising.

[lokoko]

I like it! but if you plan on making it match Megaman himself, I would advise making the model... lets say smaller and more tense. Megaman isn't really human proportionate as Roll.

[duo]

[Buster Cannon]

Pretty solid designs, if I do say so myself. ;D The Zakobon's in particular look very nice, and I see you modeled Arne's Zakobon dispenser as well. Keep it up!

[MayImilae]

I've never been one to sugar coat my opinions too much so I won't do so now .

They seem a little low poly to me. Seriously, the zakubon has only 8 more polygons (the gun area) then the original PS1 model. Your megaman model was a bit higher poly then the original. Why the difference?

I know lower polygons are easier to work with, but there comes a point where it is needless. I think that at even double the polygons it would have been just as easy and could have given you a better look. For example, the vertical polygons on the zakubon. You change it from a 8 sided polygonal object to a 16 sided polygonal object with no increase in difficulty, but it would help the look of it.

If you are a purest and want to use the same polygon levels as the PS1, that is your choice, one I am fine with. But if you aren't building to those PS1 era standards, then using more polygons is open to you, and could benefit your work. Something to consider.



Another topic: did you remember to do a side by side with the concept artwork and the original models?
www.legends-station.com/?page=mml1/rvr-zakobon
www.legends-station.com/showimage600.php?pic=mml1/artwork/reaverbot1

If you compare your zak with those, you can see obvious differences right from the getgo.
1. The height and width of the spike. Yours is flatter and fatter then the originals.
2. The colors are different, far different, in yours.
3. Head/Body proportions on yours are different. Wider in some areas, flatter in others.
4. Textures: The pattern on the body is too far down on yours and is missing the lines between them. Note to mention the differences in the face.
5. Legs: Your legs are straight down from the body. No image of a zak ever has the feet going straight down. Not only that, but they aren't connected to the body in the same way and are too far out from the center.

If you want to make changes, by all means change it. But I think you should never unconsciously make the changes to something. Always understand the original and make choices from there. If you are wanting to recreate the original and make a different version unconsciously because you don't know the originals, then that is, to me, an error. Always understand the originals as best as you can, and make changes from there.


Lastly... Did you ask arne if you could use his Zak dispenser? I know he may not mind, but it is always best to ask first. If he does mind and sees it, he might go into a tirade and make a big mess for everyone; something that can be avoided simply by asking beforehand. Furthermore, asking is a thing of respect. By asking someone if you can use their work, you are giving them the choice, and telling them you like the work.