Kean-er, Constantine (And other comic book movies)

[Fire Griffin]

As my signature states, that horrid movie came out on DVD this week; yesterday, if you really want to get into specifics.

WARNING: SLIGHTLY TINTED WITH SPOILERS

Anyway, it's an example of a movie that should have just split off and never had anything to do with the comic it was based off of, Hellblazer, altogether. Since some of you might have seen rantings from comic fans already, I'll keep this in a simple list:

• Keanu is not a convincing Constantine. Outside of appearance, his line delivery is flat and has none of the charm or color of the original thing back on the comic book page. He is not only an anti-hero and bastard, but also a womanizer, a lover, a charmer, a conman and has a sweet, gentle side we don't all too often see:
  
  
  
  In other words, he is not some kind of flat exorcist with a holy *snort* shotgun; he is a complex human with a complex personality like anyone else (making him very easy to relate to and quite likable)... and a magician/magus. He was never born with an ability to see demons. He learned his magic from reading up on occult things when not having his pappy abuse him.
  
  
• Constantine is pronounced wrong. It's not Con-stan-teen. I would not be pointing this out if even the FREAKIN' COMIC was tearing out its hair and pointed it out. Even John himself is annoyed by it:
  
  
  
  
• His real reaction to being cured by devils in the comic is smoke. Not chew gum. Smoke. When I first saw the movie and knew little about the character, I was still "eh?" I saw it again now and just cracked up outright. Or somewhere between that and cringing.
  
  
• Oh come on. The philosophy behind it is skewed and opposite of the real medium. Keanu claims that God has a plan. John simply turns his back on God and believes in mankind's ability to choose fate for himself. He doesn't want to go to Hell OR Heaven even though the readers and he knows he's going to Hell when he dies.
  
  (The comic is very liberal. Very liberal.)
  
  
• "Mammon" means money. So is the Son of Satan is money?
  
  Sure.
  
  
• Don't get me started on how Chaz Kramer is really Chas Chandler and how he is a grumpy, 50-year-old taxi driver with a superbitch wife.
  
  
• You know something is wrong when you only liked Mr. Stormare as Satan and Miss Swinton as Gabriel.
  
  
• That Spear of Destiny crap felt like cliche up the cliche.
  
  
• HOLY WEAPONRY?!

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And then some.

If you want a good comic book movie, Sin City, even with its ultra-violence and plenty of females looking degraded as sluts (since there are plenty easily offended), captured the spirit of the medium and stories quite well. The Spiderman movies, even with some of the changes to the characters and such, remained exciting and kept true to the essence of the comics. It's also much more family friendly than Sin. Batman Begins lives up to its hype as a Batman flick done right, even though Batman's macho hero voice can be... a little silly. Despite that, it felt very adult, as opposed to something for kiddies.

Too bad there are a lot of crappy comic book movies that drag the good down: The Incredible Hulk, The League of Extrodinary Gentlemen, the Fantastic Four, Catwoman, From Hell, Elecktra...

[meteorsummoner]

Too bad they they're not all good when translated into movies. The only ones I watched were the Superman movies, some of the Batman movies, Spiderman 2 and, somehow, one of the X-men movies.

I haven't watched Constantine yet but I will on DVD.

[GustaffGlyde]

Just because I like randomly appearing and then subsequently disappearing after randomly posting… umm… No idea where I was going with that, but to explain two points…

Mammon – It literally means riches, but it usually is an allusion to greed. Hence, money is not the root of all evil, greed is, which makes sense. Of all of the ‘deadly sins’ (lust, envy, gluttony, sloth, wrath, greed, and pride), one could attribute almost every sin to greed. Lust is greed for the erotic side of sex, envy is greed for what others posses, gluttony is greed for food and drink, and sloth is greed for one’s own time. Really, I could probably attribute greed to wrath and pride in some way, but I think you get the point. Greed is one of the most common and most deadly motivators which has the most potential to bring harm to others, so it does make sense considering that. That, and the more likely answer, is that mammon was used as another name for Ba‘al Zebûb (Beelzebub), as well as the demon that represented greed. Really, that’s the answer, but I just can’t bear to answer a question without going off on some kind of a theory…

Constantine – By technicality, it can be pronounced either way, but merely taking the name as it is, it is officially, taken from it’s Latin origins, pronounced Kón.stan.tèen, not Kón.stan.tìen, but if an alternate pronunciation is desired, and recognized (tyne is recognized in the dictionary as an incorrect, but alternate pronunciation), then it takes precedent over the correct pronunciation, at least within the world and works of the creator.

Maybe it has to do with the Received Pronunciation or Estuary English dialects commonly used in England, or maybe they liked ‘tine’ more, or, heaven forbid, they actually think it’s the correct pronunciation.

If the latter is the case, then my only guess is they took the stand-alone word ‘tine’ and based the pronunciation upon that, since that is how the name ends. Constantine is pronounced with the same ‘teen’ found in Byzantine. The Latin ‘I’, in this case, would be pronounced as ‘ee’.

But yeah, All in all, it doesn’t seem a like a good movie. More like a half-hearted attempt to recreate the original, more for the sake of profit than telling a good story, but that’s become pretty much routine these days. When it all comes down to it, it’s Hollywood; that’s all there is to it.

[feldinaut]

Since this is kind of on the subject, as far as comic-to-film adaptations, I am the only person I have ever met who thoroughly enjoyed "The Hulk" (uh, from 2003, not the 70s). I did. Can you believe it? Though, I can't seem to get anyone to understand that I agree that it was a rotten adaptation of the comic, but I like it as a movie. As a Hulk movie, oh gads, it was awful. But as psychological drama? It rocked, I thought.

(But maybe that's just because I've been a Jennifer Connelly fan ever since I saw "Labyrinth.")

I think I had an advantage in that I had not brushed up on my Hulk history before seeing the movie. In fact, geek as I am, I did not and still do not know a whole lot about the Hulk's story apart from that old movie, a video game, action figures, and the ride at Islands of Adventure. So while the older audience was going "What?! Where are they getting this crap from?!", inconsistencies in the story went right over my head.

The cinematography just blew me away. At certain points the screen was cut into panels, resembling a comic book not only aesthetically but with the expressions of the actors as well. Hard to explain without making it sound corny. And I am really not so hot on CG special effects, especially gigantically fake green men, but the animated Hulk is to this day one of the best humanoid 3D renderings I have seen in action. (Unlike Tobey Maguire's animated stunt double in the first "Spider-Man." )

And Ang Lee is just a rockin' director. Go rent it sometime if you're interested in some masterful film-making, unless you know too much about the Hulk to enjoy it. In that case, go watch "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" again.

"Constantine," though... That looked bad to me even before I knew it was (supposedly) comics-based.

[Fire Griffin]

I like the response I am getting from this topic. Brain candy makes me pleased. <3

Gustaff - OMGULIVELOOOOOLOLOL.

You really need to show up more often, or I am going to take a fork and impale you with it on the forum, like some kind of grisly reminder of being missed... But I think that'd scare away too many people.

Hm! I like learning things. Lot of this background stuff I didn't know in-depth like this.

Anyway, as much as I urge you not to think too deeply on this cinematic piece of drek, that's nice reasoning behind the naming of the, uh, Antichrist I suppose you could call it. It feels less thrown in.

... On a side note, a lot of the movie felt thrown in. *rubs temples* Hollywood has slid down the tubes, but we all knew that so I just wasted your time.

Also, since it is the creator's, Alan Moore, wishes to have the character's name pronounced that way, rather than historical context, fascinating as it was, I'm going to respect it and wished the people who produced the movie respected Mr. Moore's pronounciation. It's probably English dialect or something. On a side note, no wonder this guy doesn't want credit anymore, seeing how people are ... um, producing his work out into Hollywood.

( www.alanmoorefansite.com/news/may2005.html
Title of article in question is "Moore Slams V For Vendetta film, Pulls LoEG from DC Comics")

But you already said that too.

Feldi - Well, I'm glad you enjoyed the Hulk, just as some people might have enjoyed some of the flicks I mentioned as poop above.

Saw it in theaters and never watched it again, even when my parents picked it up on DVD. There was a nice movie somewhere, but it felt like it was padded over with poo; it couldn't decide what it was. Psychological splunking or action HULK SMASH? It's been awhile since I've last seen the movie, but I remember really hating the comic panel attempts. Too much movement in one screen. Nerve jarring, really. There was also some potential somewhere near the end, but that was where it went "what the hell?"

Don't get me wrong. I've watched some movies and such with those sorts of strange endings you need to think about, but there are some that pull it off and others that just ruin the entire ride.

Akira - Had a good cryptic ending. You had to think about it and it was odd the first go, but I found myself satisfied with it after some time when I had all the pieces together. It was open and the creator left you to form your own opinion. Made discussion with other fans fun, really. The manga does a better job of giving you the whole picture than the movie... which would make sense given that one has 2,000 pages while another is only two hours.

Wolfs Rain - Good show, but the ending just ruined everything. It had a wonderful journey... The building was there and awaiting the top point, spire, whatever you'd like to put on top of your mental buildings, but they decided to play it cryptic as an attempt at being deep and failed miserably. It made me hate the series. I'd say why but that'd be spoiling.

Anyway, in short: it wasn't my cup of tea.

[feldinaut]

Oh, oh, yeah. Hulk's ending sucked, now that I'm recalling it. All the HULK ON THE RUN! scenes were incredibly boring, and the (spoilers?) daddy vs. son! epic battle just reeked of WTF. In fact, I don't even remember how it ended, finally. Did somebody die? Somebody always dies at the end. ALWAYS!

I certainly did enjoy the first hour or so though. But yeah, I haven't seen it since then either.

...But I think we can all agree the roller coaster is awesome.

(I'M SORRY, I PRACTICALLY LIVE AT IOA. CHECK THE LOCATION.)

[thekeet]

Okay, I should reply to this topic, because I am so the person who got you (FG) into loving the Brit. Haw haw, viktolee.


Divine chaps: they're standard issue wear for half-breed angels.

I love how that half-breed thing was never given a proper explanation. Not the lovechild of a human and a angel/demon like the name implies, 'cause they're not allowed on Earth. And why would Chaz become one when he died? (He was totally sporting the chaps as well, by the way. I mock those so much.) And nevermind that Gabe's supposed to be one of the BIG FOUR archangels, naw.

Mostly what bugged me is that while Keanusteen was a helpless little twat caught up in God's uber plan, being all tragic because aww, he never asked for demo-vision(c) and all this bad mojo is happening and poor, poor little JJ Keanubean. (Why did I just say that?) But all the badness that's heaped onto John is pretty much the product of his past actions, his magic/adrenaline addiction, and the BS he pulls to stay alive. So it's all his own fault, and that's why he love him and he's a... am I allowed to swear on the forum? Uh?

It really, really bugged me.

That, and the holy shotgun is a grand pile of excrement, and it always will be no matter where you put it. If you want holy guns, go copy, uh, Helsing or something. (Not Van Hellsing. Y'know.) The Jackal was so cool. Incendinary bullets. I'm getting off topic.

And he is so, so unwitty. None of that cynical, scouser wit everyone loves. I was totally going, "And right now, John would say this and this and flip the bird," in my head when I was watching it.

I wouldn't say the comic would be recommended to everyone, but uh... beginners would do well with Hellblazer: All His Engines, which is a beautiful thing. Hardcover one-shotter, with an indepth history and summary of John in the back of the book.


Oh, and I kinda liked the drama in hulk, even if the plot had me going: guh-whaa? Never read that much into him, y'see. I prefer men whose necks aren't thicker than their faces, but Bruce Banner really is a darling.

Spider-man 2 is still awesome. It's saying something when I like the movie Doctor Octopus more than the comic one (why did they have to kill him in that stupid Clone Saga thing in the 90s? Then they bring him back, and it's like... gah, I'm off topic. But I'll happily rant to those who'll listen.)

X-men 2 was pretty good, even if Nighcrawler played a signifigantly lesser role than I would've liked, and that... kid who did the stuff (gah, it's been too long since I've seen it) was kinda funny... and... oh whatever. It was fine. But now we'll have to wait for number 3 for Gambit and Beast.

Sin City is still teh love. You could see the speech bubbles. And then you read the comic and it's like: OMG, this is so beautiful. And so like the movie. Am very, very proud that there exists a comic movie that's so faithful to the source that it duplicates the images in the graphic novel onto the screen. I say to the people that're like, 'if I wanted an exact replica I'd just read the comic,' well, they can do something very unkosher with a turnip and a crowbar.

I also hear the Crow is both old and good, but I have neither had the opportunity to see it or read it. And I really should, and I repent.

I wonder why there's just so many comic movies all of a sudden. Seems like a fad/craze/Hollywood thing?

I'm still very curious about the V for Vendetta movie. And Watchmen, if that's ever going to happen. I hope so, it has potential. Not Sandman, though. I pray it never happens. Hello, hello; I'm at a place called Vertigo.

Think there's gonna be a Ghost Rider movie too. He's a cheesy one, that demon.