4Kids does unthinkable...

[Paragon]

4Kids, better known as 4Babies, has always removed death, mention of death, or even the words "death" and "die", among others. Well, I glimpsed a scene of Pokemon (dubbed by 4Kids) where James actually said "I'd rather die!" to hanging out with his supposed wife. Your thoughts on this:

[Goopygoo, Lord of the Whilst]

My thoughts on this? Idiotic. Multiple pokemon episodes have been either banned or edited, and I find it annoying. There was one episode that was banned because it showed a man pointing a gun at Ash. There was another episode that was banned in the U.S. because-OMG-it showed an earthquake! Also, that one episode with the tentacruel attacking the city has also been banned. It's very stupid

[Raijin]

They don't have to avoid every single variant of the word "death" every time, only the times where the mentioning actually refers to a character's possible death in that context. If the mentioning is only figurative or refers to a possibility that clearly won't come to be, then it's legal.

If two characters are in battle and one of them threatens to kill the other, that's a no-no. Even if no death, censored or otherwise, results from the battle, it's still a possibility within context, and against the rules. On the other hand, if a non-adversarial character did something to embarass a second character, and that character responds by saying "I'm gonna kill you!", then it would be all right, because the word wasn't used in any serious context. Just like the way James used it in that example.

There are a lot of mentions of "death" in 4Kids shows if you listen carefully enough. They'll still erase the concept of death as a real possibility within their stories, but they won't erase the words themselves.

[Dashe]

The possibility of James having a wife, even a supposed one, boggles my mind. Everyone knows James is clearly...wait, that's off-topic.

Anyway, it doesn't make sense to me that any company would go so out of their way to avoid the subject of death in their productions. Why, even as late as the mid-nineties, characters were allowed to die in cartoons. I mean, Abe the Crossing Guard in Bobby's World died, Mr. Hooper from Sesame Street died, Zordon from the Power Rangers died, and I'm pretty sure there were other instances of documented death in kids' shows throughout the history of children's entertainment. Point is, the kids who saw all this stuff weren't traumatized for life from it. Therefore, I don't see any necessity in removing the concept from programs where, in some cases, the plot could've been enhanced had a character died instead of just mysteriously vanishing, or whatever it is that they do now.

[ravenf6]

Death is one of the few iron-clad certainties of life, there's no way anyone can avoid that forever, but Dashe makes a good point in regards to the documented examples.

At the same time though, one must remember, things have changed in the past few years, increased terrorism, the Coloumbine incidents, War, that have essentially created the need for politically-correct circumstances in the entertainment industry. In the wake of all that crap, someone probably feared the 'deaths' or 'gunpoints' would cause the kids to be traumatized. Nonsense (so far), if you ask me since as Dashe pointed out, there haven't been cases like that reported.


Death is a natural part of life, if those folks can't handle it..... can one call themselves human?

[DreamerBoy]

dashe said:

The possibility of James having a wife, even a supposed one, boggles my mind. Everyone knows James is clearly...wait, that's off-topic.

I think her name was Jezebel.

Over-censorship. Heh. It just makes me laugh. It seems to have the opposite effect, I say, given today's youth(look at me listen to me, I sound like an old man ). When will they learn? Til' they do, of course, it's a pirate's life for me.

(I'm not really sure what the point of the topic was.. 'oh-emm-geez, they said "die"!!' ..seems to defeat the purpose, no?)

[Goopygoo, Lord of the Whilst]

I remember when even educational videos were actually funny. There was this one video I watched about being tolerant towards others, and this is an actual bit of text from it.

Girl 1: He may be mean and old, but we still should do something for him.
Girl 2: Ya! Let's throw rocks at him!
Boy: Don't you remember what we learned about tolerance today? We should treat all people with respect! Anyways, I think we should get him some flowers!
Girl 2: Ya, and then he'll be so surprised, he'll have a heart attack!

[Paragon]

You guys do remember that 4Kids are the people that mutilated One Piece, right? Doesn't it surprise you that they'd do something like that?

[ravenf6]

megivan3 said:

You guys do remember that 4Kids are the people that mutilated One Piece, right? Doesn't it surprise you that they'd do something like that?

I don't think anyone will forget that: I remember that during the Coco Village arc, Arlong didn't throw Bellemere (Nami's foster mother) in a dungeon for life, he took a pistol and blew her brains out in front of the poor kid.

Thank God they're no longer dubbing One Piece. Sadly, the damage is already done. If someone plans to pick up the pieces, they'll have to start over from the very beginning.

[Dashe]

dreamerboy said:

dashe said:

The possibility of James having a wife, even a supposed one, boggles my mind. Everyone knows James is clearly...wait, that's off-topic.

I think her name was Jezebel.

Over-censorship. Heh. It just makes me laugh. It seems to have the opposite effect, I say, given today's youth(look at me listen to me, I sound like an old man ). When will they learn? Til' they do, of course, it's a pirate's life for me.

(I'm not really sure what the point of the topic was.. 'oh-emm-geez, they said "die"!!' ..seems to defeat the purpose, no?)

Jezebel was the product of an arranged marriage, and they were only engaged (this was in the Growlithe episode).

Wait...Arlong threw Belle-mere into a dungeon for life in that crappy dub? And Nami, Nojiko, and the gang didn't try and rescue her or anything? That's one sloppy censorship job if you ask me.

[ravenf6]

dashe said:

dreamerboy said:

I think her name was Jezebel.

Over-censorship. Heh. It just makes me laugh. It seems to have the opposite effect, I say, given today's youth(look at me listen to me, I sound like an old man ). When will they learn? Til' they do, of course, it's a pirate's life for me.

(I'm not really sure what the point of the topic was.. 'oh-emm-geez, they said "die"!!' ..seems to defeat the purpose, no?)

Jezebel was the product of an arranged marriage, and they were only engaged (this was in the Growlithe episode).

Wait...Arlong threw Belle-mere into a dungeon for life in that crappy dub? And Nami, Nojiko, and the gang didn't try and rescue her or anything? That's one sloppy censorship job if you ask me.

If memory serves me right, this happened when Nami and Nojiko were kids. At the time, Arlong and his mermen conquered the village and imposed the heavy 'protection' tax. At first, Bellemere tried to keep them hidden so that they wouldn't have to pay the tax, but Arlong found out. Bellemere tried to fight back but was overwhelmed. In the end, Arlong was going to kill Nami and Nojiko since their tax couldn't be paid, so Bellemere put the money she was going to put her tax to the kids, so she ended being executed.

This was in the manga, and seeing how that went, it's a safe bet they would not animate it even if they could, in my opinion.

[DreamerBoy]

dashe said:

Jezebel was the product of an arranged marriage, and they were only engaged (this was in the Growlithe episode).

Yeah, I stopped watching Pokémon back around '99, but I just sort of assumed she might have made a return for some reason. That's one of the few episodes I actually remember, for some reason.

[ravenf6]

Considering how crazy Jezebel can act, I can't say I blame James for running away. It's ironic though, he'd rather get a near-death beating from Jesse (the first time he got duped into buying a magikarp), than learn upper class ettiqute.

[DreamerBoy]

Heh. I downloaded and watched that old episode just because of this topic. Maaaaan that show was different back then.

Jezebel was more than crazy, she was just downright kinky. I'm surprised they got away with that.

^{_{I think this was a major digression..}}

[Dashe]

ravenf6 said:

If memory serves me right, this happened when Nami and Nojiko were kids. At the time, Arlong and his mermen conquered the village and imposed the heavy 'protection' tax. At first, Bellemere tried to keep them hidden so that they wouldn't have to pay the tax, but Arlong found out. Bellemere tried to fight back but was overwhelmed. In the end, Arlong was going to kill Nami and Nojiko since their tax couldn't be paid, so Bellemere put the money she was going to put her tax to the kids, so she ended being executed.

This was in the manga, and seeing how that went, it's a safe bet they would not animate it even if they could, in my opinion.

Yeah, I know all about what *really* happened in the manga, because I've been religiously collecting those for a while.

I'm talking about the illogicality of Arlong taking her to a dungeon for life in the anime, without any hint of resistance from the townspeople, and how Belle-mere didn't even try to break out of said dungeon. Do they actually go to rescue her after defeating Arlong, or did she just drop off the face of the earth (since she can't die anymore)?