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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 17, 2005 22:52:32 GMT -5
This thread is completely based on NGE. The show will come to Adult Swim this coming Thursday. Discuss anything on the subject.
Favorite character: Rei Ayanami
Why? She is the best in every way!!! GREAT PERSONALITY AND BEAUTIFUL. She strikes me emotionally. So sad.
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Heat Sonata
Gorubeshu
*takes the art escalator*
Posts: 269
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Post by Heat Sonata on Oct 18, 2005 6:39:26 GMT -5
This Thursday, hm? I'll have to try really hard to see it. I got a glimpse of it back when Toonami was having a "Giant Robot Week." To be perfectly honest... it wasn't my favorite. But I'll probably still check it out.
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Post by pitch on Oct 18, 2005 7:47:22 GMT -5
You have to get into the whole anime to really enjoy it. The first few episodes seem a little.. I dunno forced. It doesn't make the best of intros. And, in my opinion, it wasn't the best of dubs. Certainly not bad, but the voices are a bit annoying. Of course I watched it subtitled on my computer years ago so yeah, I'm good.
As far as characters.. Well you could probably guess that my favorite was Kaoru. That guy just screams awesome from his introduction scene(particularly the bit about song), to his end(says a bit about human nature too, which was cool)(both of which are unfortunately in the same episode).
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 18, 2005 18:12:42 GMT -5
I would be cool to see him in some more episodes. He was pretty cool. But Rei is my favorite! At first I thought the anime was going to be cool but not the best. This changed.
I like how they played Ode Joy in the last battle. I wish tere was more with Rei and Kaoru. I 've read the first 3 mangas.
Favorite: Manga Book 3 2nd: Book 1
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Post by pitch on Oct 18, 2005 18:33:30 GMT -5
HAHA!!! Someone else appreciated the wonderful effect Ode to Joy had in Episode 24!! YUS!! I learned to do part of that on piano just because of that episode. It was also the background of my old MySpace profile... >.< Kaoru is present in the End of Eva, in a way, Ayanami too(though I think she had enough screen time).. A very spoilerific way... Quite a final way, though. highlight if you don't know the drill. [ When Ayanami takes the growing embryo of Adam into herself, and combines with Lilith, triggering the Third Impact, and the fate of the world rests on Shinji's shoulders, as the pilot of Unit 01, he undergoes a mental trial. Kaoru is there, though he isn't really Kaoru, but an embodyment of Shinji's wish(basically another Ayanami, like the ones you see evolving all the other people,but specifically for Shinji). The Dummy Plugs in the Eva Series(Units 05 through 13) supposedly have Kaoru's soul, likely in a fashion similar to the one that ran off of Ayanami's soul that you see when the SEELE/NERV conspiracy is unmasked.] I've only read the eighth manga(my friend had it), which awesomely ended with a bit about Kaoru, and covered a lot about my second favorite character, sleez that he is, Kaji-san.
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 18, 2005 18:44:48 GMT -5
!!!*POSSIBLE SPOILERS*!!
Did Rei and Kaoru really die you think?
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Post by pitch on Oct 18, 2005 19:19:05 GMT -5
Ehh...
hopefully you figured out how these spoiler tags work. [Kaoru is most definitely dead. At the end of his episode Shinji inside Unit 01 squeezes him till his head pops off, after Kaoru commands Shinji to kill him. Ayanami, is something you can take either way...
The Ayanami you know and love, is most definitely dead. Though if you haven't seen the End of Evangelion, you probably wouldn't know. Her head is like diagonally sliced in half in the sea of LCL after the third impact.. However, Ayanami is CLEARLY designed to resemble and be like Yui Ikari, whose soul resides inside Unit 01, having achieved godlike immortality in the end of the End of Evangelion. Yui Ikari was a very very bad woman... >.> So the basis for Rei Ayanami isn't nor will it ever be dead.]
for your own reference
Spoiler Tags Light Blue: [color=9BB9E9] [/color]
Dark Blue: [color=4575C5] [/color]
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Post by Santa Melty on Oct 18, 2005 21:24:11 GMT -5
*some spoilers as well*
I’ll admit, Evangelion was not my favorite anime. Far from in fact. I personally thought that they could have done much more with the characters. Despite the near constant psychoanalysis in the latter half of the series, when it was all over, I felt as though I barely knew them. But I have a nasty streak of being totally unable to relate to characters’ emotions, so I suppose I wouldn’t be one to like it very much.
Perhaps it’s because I’ve only seen the dubs. Were the originals better?
That aside, I thought the characters were excellently portrayed. Each character was distinct, and it was interesting to watch them change over time.
But the manga... Was anything ever released after 8? Because I’ve never heard of any being made after that. I’ll need to check, because if there are, the local bookstore has been hoodwinking me for the past year or so. But the manga has a different storyline anyway, so I’d not be too worried.
Rei isn’t too bad I suppose. She seems to have a “I’m a clone meant to give her life for the good of the world, so get lost,” demeanor. Doesn’t really care much about anything. But didn’t she die earlier then EoE? It has been a while, so pardon my rusty recollection, but if I remember correctly, there was one point where, after a battle, she was severely injured. A little while later, Shinji found her walking down a hall or something. Upon asking her how she got better so quickly, she responded that she could not recall, and muttered something about the ‘other Rei’. It was too that effect anyway. If that wasn’t enough, there were two questionable episodes, respectively titled “Rei II” and “Rei III”. And there were all those clones used for the dummy plugs that we see in the last few episodes. I’m not the biggest tobacco wad in the spittoon, but it seems to me as though she was either replaced or killed at least one other time through the series before the movie. No clue why. I’ll need to go back and watch them again.
Regarding the use of that Ode to Joy battle, I agree completely. The effect was undeniable. Between that and the fight with Juno, I’ve been busy trying to find ways to use classical numbers as battle themes. Amazing how well some work. Another good one was the orchestral Cruel Angel Thesis. I forget where I heard it, but it was really good.
The movie itself confused me to no end. I tried looking it up, and found something somewhat relevant about a Kabala belief where one must reach enlightenment, thus becoming one with God, or something like that. I was too uninterested to bother gathering the details. In any case, it was entertaining to see the military being driven insane trying to fight the Evas. Asuka played her role flawlessly, right down to getting killed by the rest of the Eva units. The ending was that part that truly threw me off. I felt that I at least had a slight grasp of what was going on until they brought out the scenes of people walking down the street, and then Asuka getting strangled by Shinji. Dramatic, but entirely incoherent. Whatever idea I had of what was happening just collapsed at that point.
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Post by pitch on Oct 18, 2005 21:47:38 GMT -5
Spoilerific:
The anime is a lot more phun when you do insane levels of research on what is who and what it means. I used to know off hand the names of all the angels, and what they meant, for instance. The only one I still know now is Tabris, aka Kaoru, the angel of Freewill. I dunno how much better the originals were than the dub. If I remember right, it wasn't a TV release here, so they didn't have to stiff us all plotwise. Like I said though, the voices were terrible, except maybe Gendou's... I liked his.
I'm pretty sure the manga series was finalized at some point. I'm not positive though.
Rei is killed twice. Ritsuko's mom killed her once. She self destructed to save Shinji once. The soul is the same though, and that's the very idea behind Rei. NERV (more than likely Gendou in particular) created a bunch of kinda empty shells for Rei(the driving force behind the dummy plug system). However, in the End of Evangelion, Rei kinda breaks from that "doll" type mentality. That's Yui's plan at work. Yui was a... well I probably shouldn't express my rage toward Yui.
I could spend hours and hours explaining the movie. I don't know anything about the origins of any of the ideas, but I know just about everything that happens and the significance of it(a lotta obvious stuff that people tend to miss). The bit you don't understand though, is a better funded version of episodes 25 and 26 in the TV series. Mental trials. The Asuka in that was the Asuka that existed in Shinji's mind. Just like Kaoru wasn't really Kaoru. Unfortunately at the end of the movie that evil, no good, scheming really really not nice lady Yui's plan worked. Supposedly, at that point Shinji and Asuka were the only two humans on the earth, while Yui sits up in space in her godlike form, Eva Unit 01.
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 18, 2005 23:09:20 GMT -5
PEOPLE WHO HAVE NOT WATCHED SERIES SHOULD NOT READ THREAD
I need to rewatch the series. And thank you for the explanation of Rei's soul! If my memory is right, aren't the angels alternate possibilities of what humans could have been? Aren't there names o help distinguish the role they play. And does Rei have Shinji's Mother and Lilith soul combined as a soul, or simpily they're genetics?
In EoE though choking was to symbolize Shinji's struggle. With society. Rei's character symbolizes courage, fear, destiny and determination. However Rei is much more than a symbol. She a beautiful character out and in.
The ending is really hard to understand, but in the end Shinji realizes that he can no longer run away and must and that facing life is much easier. He also Find out that man was given the will to survive. However the reality he now faces is a cold one. And Asuka is sick of him. I heard originally Hideakio wanted to leave the series as it was at the end, but after all the cruelty he went through he had revenge my making a sequal brilliant, but incredibly sad. At the beging he showed letters with death threats.
The story is really based on Hideakio Anno's life. About a boy trying to run away from reality. Hideakio was depressed about his wife and sons death and tried running away in life. After a few years he realizes he can't go on like this and sees that he can start Evangelion to help ease his pain. He is currently married.
mltmlt2, Rei isn't quite like that. Its more of a "I'm willing to give my life for anyone because its my duty". Soon she cares more about shinji. One of my many favorite seens is when Rei gets mad at Asuka for causig a near death for Shinji by irritating him into doing a dumb move. Shiji and Gendo are the first ones to see Reis emitions. The possible reason for Rei's shyness is when Yui choked her. The evil which!!!
The msic was fantastic!!! My personel Favorites are Cruel Angel Thesis, Ode Joy, Rei III, and Fly Me To the Moon.
Is EoE THE END, or a possible end? That never was quite said to me.
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Post by pitch on Oct 19, 2005 0:00:57 GMT -5
I dunno about what you said about Rei symbolizing anything you mentioned, unless she plays a MAJORLY different role in the manga. She IS a clone. If I remember right, she's made from part of Lilith(which makes her able to combine with Lilith in EoE) and what was left of Yui. A machine just like the Evas. Her caring for Shinji was pure manipulation. I'll get to that later though.
The idea, if I remember correctly, was that there were 17 Angels. Humanity was born of The Second Angel, Lilith - hence Kaoru's reference to humans as Lilims or something of that nature. The Dead Sea Scrolls outlined a plan to recreate the Tree of Life, and in eating the fruit, so to speak, humanity could evolve itself to an Angel-like status. In order to do this, we took Lilith hostage.. or found her rather, in her egg, which turns out to be underneath the Geofront. Humans did however, keep her there in place by nailing her to a cross with the Longinus Lance(which can pierce the wall of the heart, otherwise known as the AT Field). For some reason, the combination of Lilith and the first angel Adam would give humanity their angel status(I believe some myth related to the story of Eden(not DASH's Eden) involved Lilith, who was, essentially some sort of feminist, that didn't feel right being subordinate to Adam).
Evangelion's seem to be spawned from Lilith. The anime sends a mixed message about it. I'd have guessed they were spawned from Adam, since they didn't want them to get to Lilith, but aparently, SEELE and Gendo had everyone duped, because they all thought that Lilith was Adam. That and if I remember right Kaoru was born from Adam(SEELE sent him to fuse with Lilith, but told him that Lilith was Adam. Before Kaoru was about to fuse with Adam he said something about returning to where he came from, but then came to the realization that that wasn't Adam, at this point making a point about human nature, then having Shinji see to his end). Maybe the Evas aren't spawned from either angel, but I know LCL is Lilith's blood, and Lilith's blood links the thoughts of the pilot to the Eva. The Evas are kinda the same idea as Ayanami(though not Ayanami herself). They're empty vessels that become inhabited by some soul, always a mother seemingly, then a child that corresponds with that soul is found(one of the mother's children, hence the special school with all motherless children or something like that). Naturally, Yui resides in Unit 01, and Asuka's mom in Unit 02. Unit 00's is debateable. Unit 03's was probably Toji's mom. Unit 04 was cool, but wasn't in the anime, and I don't think a child was ever pointed out that would reside there(Toji's friends mom, possibly). She used an experimental Super Solenoid engine based on matter to energy conversion or something.
Anyway, SEELE's plan was to use Evangelion, to create a God-like creature, and use that to trigger the Third Impact in which that creature, the Eva would become the human form of an angel - the 18th. This would happen via what you see in End of Eva when everyone becomes LCL and all become part of the giant body of Rei Ayanami. I don't really think angels were intended to be possibilities for humans, since humanity was born of one of the angels.
However Yui Ikari.. had a different intention, than SEELE or rather, a different take on the same idea. Rather than evolve the whole human race into an angel like form, she wanted that for herself. And she manipulated EVERYONE to get it. She used SEELE's plan as her window of opportunity. Gendou, whose plan was to see Yui again, went against SEELE's plans, eventually playing right into her hands. And Shinji. Poor naive Shinji... Who better to pilot the Eva than one who foolishly loved her so much and would easily bend to her will? And in the end that's how it works out. SEELE is storming the NERV HQ, while they're distracted with the Evas and pilots, Gendo's down in Lilith's egg with Ayanami about to trigger his plan, when the bit of Yui in Ayanami shows through and she takes Adam's embryo(enfused in Gendo's palm), combines with Lilith, manipulates Shinji and ends up in a situation where Shinji and Asuka are the only humans on Earth and she sits up in the heavens as a god.
WHEW.
This post took like 2 hours... @.@ not even that long, but I had to string it all together right. It's been a while since I watched the anime; I saw the movie again just last month though.
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 19, 2005 0:20:55 GMT -5
WOW! I need to watch the series again. Didn't the scientist Gendo was having an affair with kill Re, then shoot herself. I also have a vague memory that Lilith was the soul in EVA Unit 00.
When I said what Rei symbolizes I didn't directly get that from the series or manga, but kind of realized that. She kills herself for Shinji abd Humaity. She is shy. And she goes out to battle no matter her pain.
So it sound like the angels where after Lilith rather than to destroy humanitie.
Does none of this confuse you wave trooper?
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Post by pitch on Oct 19, 2005 17:03:31 GMT -5
Ritsuko's mom I believe was the one who strangled Rei I. It has been a while since I watched, but I remember something about her noticing that Rei looked amazing similar to Yui, then Rei repeating something Gendo said about Dr. Akagi being an old hag. Yui Ikari "disappeared" during an incident with Unit 01, not unlike the episode where Unit 01 aquires the Super Solenoid engine.
Rei dies for Shinji because she's expendable and she knows it. Hadta be at least twenty back up Rei's down in the Dummy Plug System, and the very existence of that Dummy Plug system pretty much implies that she has no purpose. I thought about it before, and it may very well be possible that Rei IS Unit 00. She says she's "bonded" to it in one of the episodes. But back to Shinji and Unit 01. Gendo - though he'd never admit it - needed Shinji to pilot Unit 01. It pretty much breaks down like this: SEELE wanted to use all the Eva's to trigger the Third Impact; Gendo wanted to use Unit 01 to bring Yui back(or perhaps to join her); Unit 01/Yui wanted to use them all to get rid of all the angels, and all humanity(With the exception the 2nd and 3rd children), and put herself in a position where she is the supreme being in all the Universe. So if the bit of Yui in Rei isn't what makes her want to protect Shinji, it's through Gendo's orders. Rei, up until End of Eva is an emotionless robot. Pretty much an android. People sometimes look at episode 14 - or whichever one has her "Who am I?" poem - as a big stream of consciousness from Rei, but really it was just foreshadowing to the third impact. And apart from that I don't really recall any other instance where she does anything apart from what she's told for anyone else's sake.
Humanity was the "bad guy" in Eva. In the end that's the moral - or one of them for that matter. The Angel's were there to save Lilith and Adam. Misato draws that connection when she finds Lilith and thinks it's Adam. The connection was right, but the Angel was wrong. Adam from Asuka's debut episode, resides in Gendo's palm(which is why he always wears gloves. He takes the glove off in one episode and you see an Eye where his palm should be).
I'm not particularly confused about anything in the series. Some things seemed a little stupid on people's part, but I can't hold that against them, because they don't know everything that's going on, and there was a lot of deception in Eva.
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Post by Reaverguy Rises on Oct 19, 2005 17:55:02 GMT -5
First off, Rei is not a robot. she just had a hard tim expressing her emotions and didn't know how. Also she blushed, cryed, showed anger, and smiled. Plus, when Toji was in the beserk Eva, she didn't want to attack him. And I remeber her and Toji talking and he tells hers she has a crush on Shinji and she say he may be right which he was. There was stuff before and after episode 14 to proove her emotions. All the SMALLEST thing even proove she had emotion. Perhap watchind NGE: Death and Rebirth will help you recall this.
Some what humanity was bad. Most the humans didn't even know what was going on. Shinji, Asuka, and I think Rei really never knew what was going on. Misato was soon against NERV.
Gendo apparentally needed Adam to contact Yui. Rei decided to go to Shinji in the end though.
Does the uncut version have a lot more stuff?
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Post by pitch on Oct 19, 2005 19:02:51 GMT -5
I dunno about having more stuff, but I'll say this about the uncut version: There was never ANY mention of Rei having a crush on Shinji. In fact, if I recall correctly, she's kinda uncomfortable around him(throughout the anime, Shinji seems to have an interest in her(which is really just foreshadowing to the fact that she's like his mother) she really just brushes him off emotionlessly), and rightly so because she's a clone of his MOTHER. Rei is a synthetic human with an artificial soul. At one point in the anime, Rei is having a mental conversation with herself, and that's one of the things brought up. Regardless of whether she can feel and anything else, she ultimately doesn't unless she's told to. For instance, when Shinji opened the super-heated hatch in that one episode like Gendo did, he had to TELL her to smile. It wasn't a matter of not knowing how to express her emotions, she didn't know WHICH emotion to feel and Shinji had to tell her. She can learn though, I suppose which is why you MIGHT seem to see SOME character development throughout the anime.
I might've misworded the bit about humanity being bad. Human nature, I mean. Same thing you hear in a lot of other things. Like I mentioned before, Kaoru said a bit about it before his end(he realized that SEELE intended to use HIM to trigger the Third Impact). Human desire for power, and whatnot. Which is exactly what SEELE and NERV were out for. And maybe everyone didn't know about everything. That's part of the point of the story really. SEELE(who wants to trigger the third impact) is manipulating NERV(who think the Angel's are the enemy) who uses the Children to pilot the Evas because of their easy possibility for synchronization. Gendou goes against SEELE's wishes, for Yui, who is secretly playing off all the conspiracies.
And again, in End of Evangelion, Rei wasn't really interested in Shinji's well being. He was neccessary for Yui's plan. And... well technically speaking, Gendo DID get to see Yui. Except, that got his head chomped off. Albeit, the way he treated Shinji - as Yui, Kaoru and Ayanami brought up while the sea of LCL is being filled - was wrong, and he probably deserved what he got, I seriously doubt his intention was to have Unit 01 decapitate him.. He could've done that without all the killing of the Angels. Rei, unfortunately was just a tool in all this. Not quite Yui, not quite a unique being, and not quite living by the end of it all. And... well, you probably wouldn't wanna know her other purpose.
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