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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 15:59:25 GMT -5
Several types of missions and challenges would work best here, mainly those dealing with time attacking, being sent into a gladiator ring to fight wave after wave of dangerous Reaverbots, and platforming challenges and puzzles every now and then--each of them gets harder and harder the further down you go, finally ending in one climatic boss fight at the final floor. The reward? Probably a special piece of armor, either with aesthetic merit, an actual stat upgrade, or perhaps both (I'm calling X Armor on this one though!). As for randomization, that has got to be a given at this point in the discussion, and there will definitely have to be several side-dungeons or even a story dungeon that has randomized enemies and a randomized lay-out--it adds replay value and challenge, so it's more than conventional.
I will have to agree with Halcyon on shops and mini-games along the path: even considering that you don't have to do them, they're still frivolous additions in light of what lies ahead in the ruin. Data would be nice to encounter on the 33th/66th/99th floor, so that you can recharge your health and energy--but that's one of few concessions I can make in that department.
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Post by HalcyonDays on Oct 3, 2010 16:20:51 GMT -5
Haha, X's armor?
Give me the Ultimate Armor that he gets in X4, X5, and X6!
How about the last dungeon floor not be a boss fight...
Instead, make it a "bosses" fight, where you fight the whole group of bosses you just fought getting there, ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
That'd take some REAL processing power though ,that's for sure!
But still, something like that would definitely make this notorious as the Ultimate Ruin.
And as for having shops and mini-games, yeah, I think it's best to just keep those in the islands' towns and such.
This is more of a dungeon where you prepare yourself as much as possible by gathering all your acquired strength at the beginning, and then attempting to conquer it.
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Post by MegaTuga on Oct 3, 2010 16:21:08 GMT -5
Hmm.. I've always thought taht there weren't enough puzzles in the dungeons.. the hardest I've seen was probably the icey one at Calinca... but it was more a Back and forth stuff, especially in the roomof the three mammo reaverbots and you leading them into ice traps. ANd In MML1 it was only based in getting 3 keys.. I admit that one or two were harder to get (like the one at Cardon ruins where you ahev to hit 3 switches to open a barrier.)
But this is a speculation topic so here are mine:
AS I said more puzzles would be great, probably it would be even betetr puzzles that involve certain special weapons in order to progress. - Imagine that before you go to a dungeon you can ask Roll or Data the best weapon to use in that dungeon, you may decide if you want or not. -Another cool thing was to give Data anoterh task: afar from giving energy, saving and giving tips, We could give Data a Special Weapon for him to carry so we can switch to that weapon when we spot him in certaina reas of the dungeon. It would be even better if Data wuld appear in - areas that require some skill or thinnking to get there.
A awesome thing would be haveing a TMOTB influencec, switches that stop traps, hidden areas where we can heal, and so on.
The map.. I've always liked the map, It was kinda an obsession to scan all the dungeon into the map so I can be sure that I've cheked that place and so I won't need to return. So expanding the sight of megaman wouldn't hurt either. Or depending on the light condition.
A nice thing would also be a special feature in level editor... I don't know what the 3DS capabilities are, but it would be funny to share our own made dungeon with others.
Tournments would be great too. From fighting waves of reaverbots to fight diggers themselves. and winning exlusive prizes.
And limitations in missions would also be cool.. like "Complete without destroying the Zakobons!" Or "Rescue your friend and don't get hit!". Not getting trough these specifications would mean a failed mission.
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Post by Pitch on Oct 3, 2010 16:24:28 GMT -5
@zombievolnutt- Oh so "you're" Green! I remember you from when I was still shadowing the site...weren't you the one who was a firm unbeliever in the creation of Legends 3 before it was announced? Lol, well anyway, please name ONE time when Megaman Volnutt called Tron by her first name...I don't think he even remembers her name? Yes that would be me. And yes I did doubt that Legends 3 was coming, and no I don't regret it one bit! Quite honestly, MegaMan calls so few people by their actual names in the game, it's no big surprise to me that he's never called Tron by hers. Then again, glancing through the dialog I don't think they were ever even properly introduced. I've said as much as I really care to say about the 100 floor dungeon idea. I like the idea of a side-game that has absolutely nothing to do with the Legends plot/etc, but I have an idea that I think I like a bit better: that Capcom could, instead of doing one big, long dungeon that's randomly generated/etc, release several full-blown new dungeons as DLC. Maybe it wouldn't have the lasting power of a randomly generated game, but I think I would like the idea better. I'd like it even more if you could online co-op the dungeons, too. And you could earn zenny in these missions that you could put toward buying better and better equipment and such. (new equipment could also be DLC) Something like that, I think I would like. Like how each island in Five Island adventure was DLC, or something like that. Could be a little wild but interesting.
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 16:31:59 GMT -5
Glad to see that we've picked up pace for the day. Time for my input.
Sure, you could fight every single boss in the ruin all at once on the last floor but, considering that nearly all of the toughest bosses from ever MML game ever would be part of the ruin, that would be utter chaos even to gamers who play danmaku shooting games all the time--you'd need sum of dat cat reflexes!
More puzzles are a no duh, as you can't really have an epic adventure without a few puzzling...well, puzzles. I generally would stray away from puzzles that are just back-and-forth through several rooms, or are focused on just dragging themselves out--it's much better to condense the puzzle area and focus on making a tougher puzzle in general, so as to not deal with load time inconveniences that may pop up. You could definitely add more complex missions, but they would have to be more moderated in quantity than lesser challenges so as to keep balance and to not overwhelm the player while at it--I don't think pop-up and low vision will be an issue anymore, not with the current technology that we have.
And for DLC, I figured it was a given that Capcom would give us DLC goodies, namely new dungeons. Rather, these dungeons could also have randomly-generated features to prolong their value, such as new enemy placement and map reconfigurations. lol etc. This doesn't even take into account the massive potential of a level editor, that could work for both dungeons and above-ground maps. Of course, if you're like me, I'd love to have a really complex and intricate editor, that would let us edit textures, elevation, landforms and other physical features (such as special tiling, for example), and every other aspect that can be changed to our delight. There would undoubtedly by a memory limit to how much we can put in a map, how large we can make a map, and how many we can store--it would still be worth it in the end.
One question that will we discuss much later on in development: just what could we do with the massive amount of zenny that we'll eventually accumulate while on our journey in the story or just from general play? There won't be enough of an influx of DLC to use up our zenny just in general (they could be using that time to make the next Legends game (for console, even!)), and most of the activities in the game would likely just give you more of the goodies. That can wait for now, though.
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Post by HalcyonDays on Oct 3, 2010 16:38:12 GMT -5
Oh, well, nice to finally meet ya Green!
Has anyone rubbed in the creation of Legends 3 into your face yet?
I think Green has a point with having a decision to make between having multiple ruins scattered all over islands across Terra, or having less ruins like that and this 100-floor ruin instead.
Honestly.
I say have to say, why not both.
Maybe this 100-floor ruin could be the result of some strange monolith from the Elder System Era that finds it's way poking out through the surface of Terra once again after Megaman Trigger is done defeating the final boss and completing the storyline or something.
As for online co-op, well...nevermind, those questions can be saved for later for if/when we get to that topic.
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 16:42:55 GMT -5
Both would the best-case-scenario for any of us, but we don't know how likely that would occur. The 100-floor ruin has its perks, and so do numerous specialized dungeons that are nowhere as expansive and generalized as the former. Most of these would be optional to do, as every side-dungeon is. We should wait for co-op until we're done with the action aspect of the game for now, but I'm eager to talk about that myself!
Do we want to talk about a level editor, or should our discourse now include the issue of just how connected each dungeon should be to one another?
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Post by Pitch on Oct 3, 2010 16:50:59 GMT -5
Oh, well, nice to finally meet ya Green! Has anyone rubbed in the creation of Legends 3 into your face yet? Ditto. Always nice to see someone who's been lurking come around and actually post. Nice to meet you. And, much to my surprise — and a bit to my disappointment — no, no one's rubbed it in my face that I was wrong about Legends 3. I do deserve it; hell, I've even encouraged it. But at the same time, am I supposed to feel bad? So what if I was wrong — Legends 3 is coming! Anyway... A level-editor in Legends sounds like deep deep magic to me. It sounds like something our members here who have experience building things in 3D would love, but something that us common-folk might not be able to grasp. Just my thoughts on it. But hey, if I'm able to speculate whatever wacky dreams I have about a sequel, don't let me stop you eh.
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 16:54:04 GMT -5
I like deep magic! And besides, having a more complex editor would allow us to determine which maps are better--by a huge margin at that. The common folk aren't known for making cool stuff anyways, but we aren't really the common folk ourselves.
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Post by HalcyonDays on Oct 3, 2010 16:56:58 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome. Oh, well that's a shame, but don't worry, because you know what? YOU WERE WRONG!!! DEAD WRONG!!! AHAHAHA!!! There, that better? On Topic: A level editor would be a good way to ensure that even if the dungeons in the game are lacking, you can fix up that problem for yourself. However, I feel that there is less surprise in playing a dungeon that you yourself designed, so the idea of sharing your creation with others without revealing the entire layout of your dungeon would be good. However, what sort of treasure would lie in self-created dungeons? I mean, you can't exactly put anything ground-breaking, like parts for a new weapon or anything like that. The only things I can think of are zenny filled treasure boxes, holes in the wall with zenny, and refractors. But then players might abuse this system and simply use this as a way to get easy money, taking away some of the challenge factor of the game... This would ruin self-created dungeons, since the main reason diggers go in there at all are to dig for items that are valuable or needed. I think dungeons as DLC might be a better alternative.
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 17:00:57 GMT -5
The general idea isn't so much to edit current dungeons, but create whole new ones using the textures and other visual properties stored on-disk for in-game dungeons. They could just add a separate mod for the feature. You wouldn't be able to put zenny treasures anywhere in the dungeon, as that would definitely be abusive of the system, but you'd be free to place Reaverbots and ambushes where you would so please. There are always simple fixes to these--all in all, the focus of the self-made dungeons is just to add replay value, because most of us would like to blast our way through hordes of Reaverbots and go through a few puzzles.
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Post by HalcyonDays on Oct 3, 2010 17:13:36 GMT -5
So, adding your own reaverbots eh?
Nice touch.
I'm going to spam king mirocs in every room.
Zenny all around!
Lol, then again, this is stoppable by just preventing any refractor shards from exploding out of them.
I wonder if you could also place boss reaverbots in here too?
More than one, perhaps, just to spice things up.
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 17:22:08 GMT -5
The community can always do some of the work by just shunning those who make levels merely to zenny-farm, but there could also be an option for that, lol. You could definitely place bosses as well, and quantity is all up to the designer--which is how we'll be able to tell when we've got a good level to play on.
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Post by HalcyonDays on Oct 3, 2010 17:27:44 GMT -5
Um, I can see it being more practical to prevent any sort of zenny/equipment/treasure from showing up in these self-created dungeons at all.
These dungeons are just for the purpose of a good challenge, sort of like the Digger License Tests.
But yeah, difficulty and reaverbot types/quantity of reaverbots should definitely be up to the designer of these levels.
How about the addition of puzzles to these as well?
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Post by General Specific on Oct 3, 2010 17:30:30 GMT -5
Puzzles are pretty obvious: they're part of the level design itself, whether they be platforming-based or pure logic puzzles. There could be special panels and tiles on the floor, as well as switches on objects and walls, that could be integrated into the puzzle while you're at it.
As for item drops and zenny, that would be the best bet of all in stopping that kind of farming.
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