I'm back from the dead/animation

[maverickdata]

Hiya, sorry for being inactive for so long. I signed up in this place for a purpose and that was to share my love for the great megaman games the legends series are, along with the rest of you. I appologize and tell you that I will be more active.

Whew, now that that's off my chest. I'd like to propose a toast.... wait no... ah yes, how many of you out there are interested in animation? It's cought my eye now and I've decided to major in it (if I can). Personaly I go for the traditional form of animation along with the american cartoons (warner bros., Disney, etc.)

So what say you?

[SIMSteven]

I think that animating digitally in games would be fun. I'm gonna make games sometime after I get out of college. However, I still suck at programming and I'm in my senior year.

[Bureaucratic Model 1-3]

Good luck... I know nothing about majoring in animation, so its the best I can do.

And welcome back to MegaMan Legends Station! Take a look around, get to know the place, then post like CRAZY! Its the only way to fly .

[feldinaut]

Welcome back! And... OH NO! A topic that I have way too much to say about!

I'm very interested in animation... I took some classes in it taught by an ex-Disney artist, so a lot of my fellow students were aiming for the same major you are. I don't think I'd outright discourage you from trying to major in animation, but I am going to tell you to be prepared for a rough road ahead. Art school is tough! You have to start preparing a portfolio at least 2 years before you plan to apply to art college and be in constant practice with your art for...pretty much the rest of your life. You have to REALLY love it and be willing to work at it.

It's a tough career to be starting at a time when the future of animation is very unclear at the moment, especially in its traditional form (which I prefer as well). I find 3D animation to be incredibly gimmicky, honestly. I have no problem with it being around, but the fact that it's completely wiped traditional animation off the charts is insane. Are the studios striving for realism? That's just absurd. When I see an animated film, why would I ever want to see the characters looking as if actors could have played them? (COUGHCOUGHPOLAREXPRESSFINALFANTASYETC) That's pointless. When I see an animated film, I want to see art come aliiiiiive!

But you know, I could get excited about 3D animation. I think it has the capacity to be very artistic. So ditch trying to be realistic, folks. Ditch the motion capture and just ANIMATE. I'm so over Pixar, right now. They had some really great movies way back when, but now they're going for the same kind of formulaic crap that drove Disney under...and being heralded as geniuses. *is gonna get bashed for this, probably* I'm sorry, but even if you liked Finding Nemo, how could you think that was an Oscar winning movie when put next to actually creative movies like The Triplettes of Belville and SPIRITED-FREAKIN'-AWAY which bagged the highest honors in EVERY OTHER COUNTRY ON THIS GREEN EARTH?! If Nemo had been a 2D Disney movie, the critics would have hated it. I mean, come on. It bored me to death, personally.

Whoa. Going nuts here. But another thing about your major... Don't make it your dream to work at Disney unless by some kind of miracle things get 100x better than they are now by the time you graduate. I'm sure you can figure out that it's not the best place to be...at ALL. I live in Florida, very close to MGM and all that, so it really gets me peeved to see Disney abandoning traditional animation and laying off all those poor animators. I just hope they realize that their movies suck these days no matter HOW they look. I mean, hello?! DINOSAUR? Remember that collosal flop?

I hope traditional animation comes back. I'm really gonna miss it.

Okay. So you see I'm really opinionated about this kind of thing. Sorry for totally going nuts there. And also, I don't mean to preach at you about your college plans. You can do whatever you want! </your mom> It's just that it really breaks my heart. I've known a lot of kids who are convinced their lives will be complete if they work at Disney but the company sucks, and even if they don't drop out of art school, they're stuck being miserable for the rest of their lives because even though Disney is treating them like trash, they don't want to quit and have to make horrible things like commercials and Swedish children's shows. But you haven't even expressed that kind of desire, so I'm really getting ahead of myself anyway.

But on a less deep note, what's your favorite tradionally animated movie? I've gotta go with when-they-were-actually-good-era Disney's Beauty and the Beast. (Only animated movie that has ever been and probably will ever be nominated for Best Picture at the Academy Awards, baby! [Back before there was an animation category... Whoo, yeah!]) I was able to see the rereleased "GIANT SCREEN" version of the movie and... My gosh. It was the most incredible movie experience of my life. No joke!

EDIT: Drat. I wish post count could incorporate length, somehow. This one should count as oh...5 or 6?

[aarond]

"...in a spitting match, nobody spits like Gaston!"

I probably think 2D cartoons are more aesthetically pleasing than the newer stuff, but I don't have any problem with it as a storytelling medium. I think Dreamworks is overusing a bit, but that's because their last 2D movie, "The Road to El Dorado,' kind of flopped at the box office, while Shrek did quite the opposite. (although I kind of like the way "El Dorado" was a bit of a homage to the "Road To" movies featuring Bing Crosby and Bob Hope. It was pretty good.)

And Feld, I don't know why you didn't like Nemo. I thought the movie was well-written and entertaining, and it probably still would have worked in 2D, but Pixar don't play that game (they started out as part of Apple Computers, or something, to show off what the MacIntosh could do. Or I may have just made that part up and think I remember it).

That being said, I find the 3D Disney movie featuring Donald Duck and Uncle Scrooge to be highly offensive, even though you can see how the big D is trying to work it from a marketing standpoint. That doesn't make it undisgusting, though.

Motion capture animation is not a new technique. Back in the 20's, Max Fleischer started having his animators follow a serious of stop-motion pictures to animate Popeye cartoons, and animators have been doing that for more realistic motions since then.

As a minimalist, I'm a big fan of the lame animation in early Hanna-Barbera toons like Yogi Bear and Scooby-Doo. Even though it's lame. I especially loved it on Super Friends when Black Vulcan would have pants in one scene and then not have pants in the next.

[feldinaut]

...I myself am not entirely sure why I didn't like Finding Nemo. It's been a while since I've seen it, and I only saw it once, but my initial reaction was "...This plot. It stinks." I should probably give it another try.

And I don't think I've ever heard of this 3D duck film you're talking about, but it sounds like quite a scandal!

I'm okay with the motion capture technique, especially when it comes to video games, but I guess I'm just a little too quick to cry "CHEATING!!" when it's used in movies. I'm mostly thinking recently here. When used in old Popeye cartoons (I ♥ Popeye, by the way.), he still had to be DRAWN. With recent movies using 3D models and motion capture... I fail to see how it's animation. It's just acting. And that's where I WILL tip my hat to Pixar and Nemo... You can't motion capture a fish. You can just watch it, study its movements, and animate it.

[maverickdata]

Feldinaut said:

Welcome back! And... OH NO! A topic that I have way too much to say about!... blah blah blah

Oh ho, don't worry 'bout me, I've thought it through. Animating the original way is part of the all the animation careers today. Many animaters start out as inbetweeners. As much as I love traditional animation, I'd have to admit it probably won't be what I'll be doing later on in life.

But hey, I love 3-D stuff too. Not to mention Pixar IS one awesome company. I'm not to fond of "Finding Nemo" but "The Incredibles" rocked!

So you took classes eh? I wish there was one around here for me. Althought I really haven't looked into Weaver (another school for the arts) as much as I should. Maybe you could get on AIM and tell me some stuff here and there... that is if you have it (I don't know you people ^^;)

It truely is sad about Disney moving to other forms of animation. But when you dwell on the past as much as they do, you can't help but turn to other ways to dwell on the subject. Ever since Walt died, man, caputs for them. I can't say I expect Disney to get better, but hey... miracles happen... isn't that their slogan?

Thanks for all the warm "welcome backs." I'm gonna get to like it here.

[SIMSteven]

Back to an old question (yet it was posted today), my favorate Disney movie is Rob Hood. (Been so long since I've seen it though. I can't even remember if was from Disney or not.)

It was the furry version of disney where Robin Hood is a fox. I watched that movie sooooo many times when I was little.

[bluerobotgirl]

SIM... the animated Robin Hood is an awesome movie...
*attempts a high five, and falls on the ground*
owch.

Annnyyyhooowwww.....

diglital animation bores the crap out of me. I love doing traditional stuff, though. Somewhere around the fanart section is the electrike animation that I made.

however! I'm not gonna go into animation as a job or anything. I'd much rather do other stuff... because HAVING to do art kinda kills all the fun for me.

[maverickdata]

SIMSteven said:

Back to an old question (yet it was posted today), my favorate Disney movie is Rob Hood. (Been so long since I've seen it though. I can't even remember if was from Disney or not.)

It was the furry version of disney where Robin Hood is a fox. I watched that movie sooooo many times when I was little.

Yes, that was done by Disney. That was a favorite of mine too, but I'll have to go with "The Sword and the Stone." Which was about King Arthur.

[aarond]

The thing I like about the Disney Robin Hood was how they kind of made it into a Western, with the "Sheriff" voiced by Pat Buttram and Alan O'Dale played by country music singer Roger Miller (awesome). I loved the "Robin Hood and Little John a-walkin' through the forest...)"

[SIMSteven]

Oodilolly oodilolly golly what a day.

Yup, although Sword in the Stone was also one of my big favorites. The last real movie I watched from Disney was around the time before Mulan. I didn't watch Mulan, and I think that was the first Disney movie I hadn't watched (except for some of the oldies).

One of my other favorite Disney movies has to be An Officer and a Duck. While not a true full-featured movie, it has a good length, like any other Disney movie. Basically, Donald Duck joins the army and raises hell for that officer dude (who is also the guy in Goof Troop).

[PharaohManXe54]

About Disney, my favorite movies are Mulan (#1! I saw it like 3 times when I was little in the theaters! Do you think that it's wierd that I'm 16 years old and want a copy of the DVD for Christmas?), Beauty and the Beast, and all the Miyazaki films (yes, Disney produced them in America. Castle in the Sky #1! Go orphans!). Oh, and Kiki's Delievery Service was awesome too! It was the first Miyazaki movie I ever saw. Everyone that I saw left me feeling good after I saw it and made me want to do something good for other people (except for Totoro. What was that movie about again? Oh yeah, dust...). Spirited Away is AWESOME! I can't stand it when my friends are so against anime. They're so closed minded. Anime will preserve classical animation. The thing I can't stand about some cartoons is the use of splicing in 3d with animation (that's what ruined Kirby: Right Back At Ya! for me. His 2d model was the coolest thing ever. Why did they have to mess with it? Also, it ruined Transformers: Energon [Transformers: Armada Rocks my Transforming Socks!). The only good uses of both 3 and 2d are in Futurama (it's more cell shaded 3d) and Code Lyoko (one of the most overlooked awesome shows on Cartoon Network. It has the most awesome plot) where the 3d blends SEEMLESSLY with the 2d. You must see it. How did I get from Disney to Code Lyoko?

As for career, I WISH I could draw comics for a living, but I can't draw! I can make kinda simplistic cartoony looking people, but as for talented art, I can't do it (I had to drop my Drawing 1 class cause the projects were way too hard. It was sooooo intimidating seeing everyone else do good and me fail). All I can do is write creatively, but that doesn't help unless I have cool pictures to back up awesome words.

As for 3d and stuff, I think Aarond hit it right on the head: it doesn't matter what the animation is like as long as the storytelling is good (hehe, I'm in the storytelling category in forensics and it's so much fun!). My favorite games are all made even better by the 3d animation, but when they have anime cutscenes in them (e.g. Chrono Trigger fo the PlayStation1), that's just as good. Hmmmm..... maybe I should try my hand at 3d modeling.........

Sorry for my stupidity.

[aarond]

SIMSteven said:

Basically, Donald Duck joins the army and raises hell for that officer dude (who is also the guy in Goof Troop).

That's Peg-Leg Pete. He doesn't always have a pegleg, but he is the most traditional of Disney villains, and is in fact the oldest character in the canon, even older than Mickey, 'cause he appeared in Walt Disney's Alice in Wonderland shorts when he was still producing cartoons in Kansas City.

He's a catspaw (cat), by the way. That would make him the perfect villain for a mouse. There was one listing I saw where all of the anthropomorphic animal characters were given specfic racial identities (duckbill, dogface, mouse-ear, etc). That was pretty cool.

In "Goof Troop," Pete was less evil and more...crooked. Usually he's so over-the-top with his badguy-ness, it's comical in nature. He's also not limited to one "hero." He can be a badguy for Donald, Mickey, Goofy, Uncle Scrooge, and even Donald's nephews at one point, I think. And sometimes he's not evil at all (like in the short, "Symphony Hour," where he played Mickey' s benefactor).

Currently, Pete is voiced by Jim Cummings, who also plays Darkwing Duck, Winnie the Pooh, Monterey Jack, and several others.

I'm waxing long, there, so I'll stop now.

[Fire Griffin]

I believe Feldinaut has said what could have been said.

As a beginner who is being slapped really hard in the face by reality, if you're not passionate about art and you are too lazy:

SEEK ANOTHER MAJOR, NOW.

An art major in nearly any field is tough; it's very competitive since there are quite a bit of people that can draw out there. Copying is nil; offer something else new to the art world. It's hard, given that chances are that if you've drawn it before, there are going to be seventy others like it. There is nothing new under the sun in the art world because chances are what you are drawing and calling original has been done before. It's not about the subject, really, but the spin and style of your own that you breathe into it. Anyone can bust their face in and draw a real life cat so perfectly and precise, but can you add something else to it? Can you make this drawn cat something you can call your own? Can you make it so that when people see this cat, they know it was by you? Can you define yourself artisitically? What is your artistic identity?

Creativity is so cryingly vital to the field that if you're an artist and you're not creative, chances are you are going nowhere. Plus, there are a lot of creative people out there, but the chances of making it big? A fraction. If you're going into the art world for money then forget it. The chances of making it big in the art world are so slim that you could just cry. You all know Walt Disney but do you also know Ralph Bakshi (who had done mostly crappy animation but is a name)? Gerald Scarfe (he designed the animated sequences in Pink Floyd's The Wall and the characters in Hercules)? Chuck Jones (you better know this one)? Don Bluth?

Okay, you don't have to know these names but it's proof that unless you are an animation buff, chances are your name is not going to be known. If you want fame, back off and pursue something else. Art has principals, art has its rules, art has a lot more behind it than just scribbles on paper. You have to study techniques and improve yourself. Be dissatisfied will make you better to where you want to be, to be satisfied. For me, it's a neverending cycle but it has gotten me farther than I would have gotten if I had nodded and said I was good enough.

Buckle down and work or be prepared to be disappointed.

((As a word of warning, Gerald's gallery has some mature things in it. I rather like his style but if you have something against nudity and some body parts hanging in here and there, be careful. Otherwise, his stuff is brilliant, or at least I think so.))