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Post by vexium on Jun 5, 2013 22:13:27 GMT -5
Yea, I agree with you both. And wow, Dashe, that video explains a lot. Sigh, imagine what a masterpiece it would have been.
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Post by Sudo Iwaki X on Aug 22, 2013 0:17:22 GMT -5
I love both Megaman Legends 1 and Megaman Legends 2 a lot. I like Legends 2 a bit more than Legends 1 because it added in the lock-on and move function, the graphics, the themes of ruins, and the storyline. I do admit that Legends 1 ran a bit better and than Legends 2 though.
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Post by jad4321 on Nov 22, 2013 15:57:00 GMT -5
Pros in Legends 2, Expansive locations, far more variety with ruins to explore,improved targeting and analog control camera support.
Cons, areas could have used a lot more looking into, I agree about the lack of Bonne fights and more Glyde would've been nice.
Legends 1. Well it's the first game. Can't say to much because it's just perfect. Most first games just are. It's what starts things so to compare is kind of well jarring to me. Though I will say, I agree with the connected ruins, but in respect to Legends 2. The reason the ruins were not say all inner connected that way. Is because the story in Legends 1 well followed the entire. 1 Island many underground ruins. I feel Legends 2 could've gone without music in some ruins. Which honestly to me added the more horror aspect which was lacking from Legends 2. Legends 1 nailed that, just giving you robotic sounds with the occurrences just not knowing what was going to happen around the corner.
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Lumigado
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Post by Lumigado on Dec 17, 2014 12:09:38 GMT -5
I agree. Legends 2 is more storyline oriented, it seems to me. I miss the huge interconnected ruins network, and the creepy music in the side ruins.
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Post by Loken on Dec 17, 2014 13:42:29 GMT -5
I really like Legends 2. There are so many great parts to it but unfortunately what makes it feel more shallow is the lack of anything to do after you've done all the story in an area. What I really like about it is the expanded story though. You learn more about Barrel, are introduced to Bluecher, Matilda(kind of), and Banner, and the whole Legends world seems bigger and more varied because of the multiple islands you go to. If every island were a mini-Kattelox it would have been perfect. Especially if they gave you a reason to back track. I really like Yosyonke, and I really like Nino, but you only get to enjoy them for a portion of the game.
But yeah what I like about it most is that it expands on what a digger is, and what the world around the digger is like. It gives you more of a sense of the kind of thing Rock and the gang do day in and day out.
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Post by Mikéy on Dec 17, 2014 14:20:25 GMT -5
...Interesting topic to bump up.
But, yeah. For what it's worth, I definitely see the major lacking that Legends 2 seems to have. If you want to have any fun at all after beating the game, you have to challenge yourself on bosses to get any sort of play-value after the fact. The only seemingly worthwhile sidequests involve Appo and Dah, and the shady dealer. I think there was a favor chain, but that's not the greatest way to add side content. And the quiz masters were a small shot but a major miss.
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Post by Loken on Dec 17, 2014 14:34:34 GMT -5
The quiz masters are a great inclusion if you live in the 80's like Chiz. Things like the Appo and Dah quest make me wish we got a more fledged out MML2. How many other games have you being a weird teenage benefactor to some ignorant, invulnerable island children. Teaching those annoying kids to read was great. Also that reminded me of Roll and Barrels diaries for some reason. Those were a great inclusion to the game and the series.
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Post by Anime64 on Oct 17, 2017 21:15:46 GMT -5
Alrighty, I recently did a Megaman Legends binge and I will say I prefer Legends 2 over the original as it's more polished in the long run. But both has their pros and cons.
Story: Both game's stories are interesting, but I lean towards the original a little more. Legends 2 was more of run here and get this key and rinse and repeat. Legends it has a more significant feel to it.
Voice: I know it's mostly the same, but I want to focus on Volnutt. I prefer Susan to Corey mainly because one, I love Sailor Jupiter, and two, Corey makes Volnutt sound like a 10 year old. I don't care if everyone hates the sequel voice, but I love it.
Music: Both game's have awesome tracks. I lean towards Legends 2 in this department since the ruin themes in Legends 1 was forgettable and I never paid attention to it (except for the main gate theme) compared to Legends 2. Plus the Flutter theme was better in 2 since the original version got annoying real quickly.
Controls: I'll admit that the Legends series is great in everything but the controls. 2 was more tolerable because you can move while shooting. In the original, you couldn't and that just added fake difficulty. Plus with the game throwing a million things at you, it gave me headaches like trying to defend city hall.
Layout: 2 takes this. I personally hated the connected ruins that Legends was going for. I would easily get lost and I would feel like running in circles. Plus it all looked the same in comparison to 2 which has more variety. At least in 2, you go in a lava place, underwater, and explore a jungle like area vs. 1 where the sub gates looked the same for the most part.
Others: Legends 1 has the more memorable NPCs. From the museum girl to Ira to the Junk Shop couple. 2 only has the Mayor and her quizzes and that's it honestly. Also I'm glad Legends didn't go crazy with the upgrade prices of the weapons. Like in 2, you literally need close to 10 million Zenny to upgrade the Shining Laser. In Legends, it's a modest 800,000 Zenny. So everything is cheaper in the first game. But legends 2 had that karma system. Sure Legends had that too where if you shoot down the ship or run away with the money, you turn black, but there was no consequences for those actions vs. Legends 2 where prices are higher and you gain a unique item from a certain guy. And yeah I know you can redeem yourself in 2 compared to the original, but it takes a long time. Plus the map in the second game was way better. But Legends 2 has a few things that bug me like those church doors and not being able to explore the city after beating the Bonnes.
Overall, both games are incredible, but I am more in favor of the unpopular opinion. It does suck we never got a third one. Didn't Capcom blame us for not showing Enough support? So yeah hope you don't mind the bump here.
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tho
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Post by tho on Sept 1, 2018 20:17:14 GMT -5
HELL No Legends 2 is Perfect and the Best Adventure game ever made. There Can, a reason to Love or Prefer Legends 1 for its more Homemade Feel and its more Doom Format Level design. But Legends 2 from an action RPG standpoint is the embodiment of Perfection
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SULucina
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Post by SULucina on Sept 3, 2018 21:40:24 GMT -5
I just finished Hard Mode yesterday and I have to say... the Second Key arc is easily the weakest point of MML2. More on that later.
First off, I have to say that I'm personally pretty "bipolar" when it comes to Legends 2. On one hand, the graphics overall are much cleaner and had more detailed textures than in the first game that added character and individuality to the towns where the people of Terra resided. On the other hand, though, I detest the appearance of the essentially re-skinned MML1 Reaverbots and found the MML2 varieties ugly. Although I do like the fact that MML2 does use more unique character models, none of them seem to stand out, and in the end, I end up forgetting about most everyone who isn't a major character in the game. Their existence in MML2 seems so much more pointless than in MML1, which, with fewer (and blockier) models was still able to imbue individual personalities into each character and make Kattelox feel more alive. Everyone had character, spunk, and an identity, even though some might share similar appearance to let's say, the Jetlag Bakery woman or the guy selling vegetables at his stand, we can still identify each character. People move around and change dialogue whenever new events occur. In MML2, very little changes after one arc of the game in the NPC dialogue and rarely do the people on the islands move around, which strikes me as unnatural and a lazy act on the developers' part. I'm not asking them to have random NPCs move from island to island every time I complete an entire section of the game - I just want a few characters on each island to move around a bit and say different stuff as the game progresses. Maybe having a select few NPCs be more memorable because they can travel between islands is too much to ask for? I don't know, perhaps just some missed opportunities, I believe. I guess the main reason that all these NPCs exist is for the purpose of making the islands' towns seem populated, kind of comparable to Von Bleucher having an "audience of cardboard cutouts" (no, seriously, aside from Matilda, the Bonnes, Glyde, Klaymoor, and a few guards, these guys are just unanimated flat textures. Thanks, incomplete but hilarious MML2 Abridged.) Pretty darn sad...
With respect to the music, while I dig tracks like Geetz's battle, Defense Zone, and even Reaverbots in the Calinca tundra for their intensity, much of the soundtrack of MML2 seems lackluster by comparison and is sorely lacking in memorability. Some themes are downright repetitive and offering little variation and dynamic (Calinca Ruins main theme, both train battle themes) or just boring (Saul Kada Ruins theme.) The reason why I liked MML1's soundtrack as a whole more was because the themes it had more variation within each theme to make it more interesting and enjoyable to listen to. I've noticed a lot of MML2's tracks have a constant tendency to sticking to one group of notes and repeating it over and over again during the course of the theme without any different accompanying movement to replace it and at least creating variance in the track. To be honest, the best music in MML2 is found playing over the cutscenes, which do have dynamics unlike the regular themes... but only because stuff, happens. Hmm, lifeless NPCs and single-movement-heavy tracks, I'm beginning to detect a pattern here...
This bipolar view of MML2 of mine continues into the gameplay and controls. I can agree with most everyone else here that Legends 2 is the superior game when it comes to the controls. Moving MegaMan around with the left joystick feels a lot more comfortable on the thumb and for me especially because I started playing MM64 first and was much more accustomed to moving Triggs with a control stick. We also finally get a better way to control the camera, with the right joystick. Another point towards MML2 was that one can target an opponent and strafe and shoot them instead of freezing in place and become a sitting duck for enemy attack. Again, easy for me to get used to because MegaMan auto aims while strafing in MM64 (you still couldn't pick targets in that game, though.) Despite these significant changes to the controls for the better in the game overall, the developers managed to demonstrate the weaknesses of these new implements towards the half-ways point in the game. In the Second Key section. Yes, let's begin with the Glyde's base mission on Calbania Island. Base Mission #1: Destroy all the Drake-err, Draches inside this section of the base. Simple enough, right. Easy? In higher difficulties? Nope. In this instance, the lock-on mechanic displays its weakness - the inability of targeting specific desired targets. Personally, I think they should've programmed MegaMan should only be able to lock onto objects in front of him, not directly behind him no matter how close it is to him. If I wanted to target the turret, sure, I would just have him turn around and then be able to do so. But nooo. The way the lock-on works make this fight a headache, even with special weapons. I just hope the next room is not another disappointment... oh wait, it is. Base Mission#2: Defeat the Birdbots in the tower. The problem with this fight, once again, focuses on the lock-on. Whenever MegaMan targets an object, the camera zooms closer towards him to get a better look at what he is focusing his attention on. However, this has the downside of obscuring visibility on the edges of the screen. Moreover, if he's targeting something above him, the floor below him becomes obscured and whatever hazards that lie on the ground become invisible to the player's eye. During this mission, the birds will be tossing bombs at you from a tower and if the bombs don't hit him, they will eventually blow up and release a damaging explosion. The player has to make MegaMan run around to avoid the bombs as well as moving to better vantage points to take down those pesky birdbots. Would have gone a lot smoother without this not-being-able-to-see-the-floor crap. Base Mission #4: Break into the balcony and rescue Shu. Here, after defeating the birdbot rip-offs of the Blumbears, we are for the first time forced to use the new lift mechanic if the player hasn't already used this during the Nino Island missions to protect the tower from Glyde's forces. Find 2 boxes and stack them on top on another to get up to the balcony. The problem with this mechanic is that there is no way to make MegaMan simply place down a block in front of him instead of chucking it forward and have it miss where it was supposed to be placed. Sometimes I spend an extra minute trying to complete the mission because of this lack of precision. The worst part about it all is that this action is repeated over again in Nino Ruins, twice. Come to think of it, the whole Second Key section is filled to the brim with the liftable item gimmick, and then its never used again until the Fourth Key arc.
To be continued...
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Post by Dashe on Sept 3, 2018 21:55:58 GMT -5
I definitely agree with you about the music in Legends 2 not being so memorable. Legends 2 had this Grammy-worthy gem.
Heck, the most memorable song in Legends 2 was the reused Lake Jyun Sub-Gate theme! The dungeons were also just too theme-y for my liking. Instead of using elements as an accent like a normal ruin architect, they really went overboard rubbing it in with Saul Kada, Nino, and Calinca. Legends 1, to contrast, had a creepy, ambient sort of aesthetic that just plain worked better. I wouldn't be surprised if I brought that up in this thread years ago, actually.
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SULucina
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Post by SULucina on Sept 4, 2018 20:52:40 GMT -5
I'm not nearly as adverse to elemental themes as you are, but I got to say that the more games I encounter using an element to "decorate" some sort of dungeon or area the more I think the use of thereof is merely to justify gimmicks or overall frustrating mechanics (especially ice physics.)
Continuing from Glyde's base and blowing it to smithereens, we return to Nino Island and find ourselves ambushed by none other than the head hancho himself. To be perfectly honest, when I first played Legends 2 about a decade ago, Glyde just came off as a generic villain to me - just another greedy air pirate looking for a big cash out. Sure, I liked the idea that the birdbots and associated mechs were rip-offs of the Bonnes' designs, but the main character behind the manic birds seemed so... uninteresting. Even back then, I felt like there was something wrong with the way Glyde was portrayed. It was not until I stumbled upon some MoTB footage that features him in his true colors. He always had a word to say in that game, and it every bit was directed at our pirate protagonists. In contrast, he never interacts with MegaMan in MML2. I feel like Glyde was made specifically for MoTB and was shoehorned into MML2 just so we have another group looking for the Mother Lode. He still interacts with the Bonnes, sure, but for the life of me cannot understand why he seems to treat MegaMan as a non-issue despite the obvious damage he inflicts upon his army. Bola and Klaymoor were comical, but other than their misadventures with Blue Boy, again we seem to have another group of characters put into the game for the sole purpose of making it feel like "a bunch of bad guys are after the Keys and we must stop 'em." I would have liked to know more about them, but alas.
After beating Glyde and making him laugh to death, we have to confront the biggest slog in the entire game - Nino Ruins. I'm not about to reiterate the atrocities of this dungeon. What has been said has been said (besides, there's a whole thread dedicated to it somewhere here.) My feelings for Nino Ruins are mixed; on one end, I like the melody of the ruin's theme and watching real fish swimming within its chambers, and on the other I despise traps taking advantage of the water physics and the fact that the Drill Arm is necessary for collecting all the items. Though, I must add that it would have been better if you just fought Klaymoor once and ditch the whole backtracking through the entire ruin thing.
Problems in gameplay persist after the trek in watery labyrinth. In the Saul Kada Ruins, for example, we have pits of lava that burn MegaMan constantly should he take a single step in it. What bothers me the most is that the freaking hot stuff is often placed at the same level as the safe, brown rocky floors especially in a few rooms, and should he accidentally set one foot in it, he begins to sink into it and burns up. If only they had raised these safe portions of flooring a little bit higher, it wouldn't have been as easy to make that sort of accident happen. The boss of the ruin is epic and imposing but lacks difficulty. Oh, and I know this has been said already but I gotta say it too - invisible/invincible floor traps (Shoebafuns) suck. They take away any enjoyment I have with exploring the ruins that are infested with them and interrupt the flow of the gameplay whenever I encounter them.
I also find a problem with the whole needing of a high-enough-ranking digger's license just to get inside the side ruins thing. Many items necessary for building special weapons are locked behind these ruins and, not having a high enough license means obtaining said items is impossible at the normal difficulty without cheats. What sense does that make? If I wanted to 100 percent the game on normal or even hard difficulty, I should be allowed to do so. I shouldn't have to turn up the difficulty level in order to obtain all the goodies in the ruins; just give me a better license without changing the difficulty.
MML2 has a neat array of special weapons to choose from, but sadly not all of them are actually useful. I hardly use the Shield Arm mainly because it doesn't stop melee knockback (which temporarily disables the shield while MegaMan is falling,) and find the Hunter Seeker, Reflector Arm, Spread Buster utterly useless. Don't get me started on the Aqua Buster. Simply put, they're great ideas for a 2D shooting game placed in a 3D environment. When your enemies have more room to move around and dodge your attacks... eh, you get the picture. The Blade Arm is fun but impractical to use properly. In contrast, most special weapons in MML1 are fun and easy to use and save certain entries in the department, all of which can be very useful especially in the right situation. Heck,
What do I think about MML2's plot you may ask? It's... very basic and gimmicky, the crux of the whole thing relying on the search for the Mother Lode for its foundation. Though MML1's was still basic at best, it still handled its progression of events in a smoother fashion than did 2. As someone who is a big fan of the System concept, I love that it got fleshed out more in this sequel, I do. What I don't care for, however, is the way it is presented in the game. We get a little bit of it in the beginning with Matilda's (Yuna's) incursion aboard the Sulphur Bottom and a bit more after Sera's awakening, but then it gets dumped on us in an extra-long cutscene after MegaMan fights Geetz. The developers could have spread these revelations between the collecting of the keys instead of what they ended up doing. We could have also got a peek at what Yuna and Sera were up to while MegaMan's out looking for the keys, which would increased their significance to the plot greatly. That's what MML1 did with the Bonnes, so why didn't they think to do something like that? The worst offender, of course, was the leaving the ending at a cliffhanger, especially not seeing our hero return to his friends. If only they didn't cancel MML3, I wouldn't have felt so sour about it... Still feeling sour, Capcom. Doing this just so you can set the events up for a sequel we never got...
Reflecting upon everything I just stated, I can very safely say that though I still like Legends 2 quite a lot, I still think there is plenty of room for improvement. If we ever get a Legends 3, let's hope it does not repeat its prequel's mistakes.
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Post by Dashe on Sept 5, 2018 19:50:25 GMT -5
Did you ever get into the Kimotoma Caverns with the Class S license? It's incredibly disappointing. You're back underwater for some reason that makes absolutely no sense. I mean, come on. This is a desert. They could have at least made it look like some kind of water transport pumphouse for the city, if they had to go with water a second time.
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SULucina
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Post by SULucina on Sept 6, 2018 20:14:36 GMT -5
Oh gravy. I almost forgot about that load-of-crap side ruin. That has got to be one the worst killjoy moments in the game. You take the hard-as-Hades Class S test, probably spending over 20 minutes one your first attempt trying to beat this timed puzzle (which, by the way, does not reflect the difficulty that you transition into because a.) you probably have bought better Buster Parts and armor, and b.) SPECIAL WEAPONS.) Hated Nino Ruins' water physics? Well you're in luck (bad luck, that is.) Heaven forbid if you accidentally sold off the Hydrojets because you didn't think you'd need them ever again after Nino. Oh, and you have to fight the Midosu again while dealing with the water physics if you wanted to cull the ruin's refractor which is, in my opinion, not worth all that effort from taking the License test to getting to the boss room and beating them the slow and tedious way. Not even if it was worth half a million zenny.
I think they should have stuck to a more normal ruin theme just like the other two side ruins. Even sand and or lava would have been a better choice for obstacles for the Kinotoma Caverns because it would at least fit with the desert or matched with the main ruin of the island. Personally, I think they decided on water because the developers thought that the water mechanics made things harder therefore warranting a higher level of skill on the player's part (having flashbacks of getting ambushed by Miitan in that one room in Nino Ruins again as I'm typing this sentence.) But all it really did was just making collecting the ruin's loot more tedious and time consuming.
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