What if Legends hadn't been that different?

[Dashe]

If, back when when the games were still new, the Mega Man Legends series hadn't drastically deviated from the Classic/X formula, where you would progress through 3D stages and defeat a boss at the end to earn its weapon to use against another boss, do you think you'd have enjoyed it as much as the Legends that brought you here to begin with?

How do you think something like this would have even worked?

I'm picturing a 3D Mega Man Digger with levels reminiscent of the early Crash Bandicoot games, but I'm at a loss as to how the bosses would've worked out or how (or if) the Bonnes would've fit in. You'd get a downgraded town hub with a bunch of shops and areas where you can change and upgrade your weapons, to an extent. The weapon equipped would change the color of your armor, as usual, and the end boss would be some important figure from Elysium who'd repeatedly get away and keep coming back Wily-Style to reprise their role as the final boss across every game. There'd be pretty much no sidequests and very little townsperson interaction, but the quest for the keys in Legends 2 might've felt less conventional that way. I couldn't see myself liking it enough to remember it after playing it once or borrow it from my cousin for an extended amount of time, but I could see where some people might.

[Adrian2040]

On these days I'd normally leave a quick message and leave, but considering this is a topic that keeps coming back wherever I go and that requires discussion with a little more depth I guess I'll have to make a somewhat large post. However, I'll try to not to deviate too much.

First things first. To put it simply: 2D MegaMan Gameplay simply converted into 3D doesn't work. The best example is the critically and commercially failed game called MegaMan X7. The game followed the same general system that all of the other X games did: One intro stage, 8 stages that can be selected after the intro stage with bosses whose weapons you could obtain and 4 final levels after these that had to be played in order, one of them having you fight against all of the 8 first bosses (Not counting the intro one) in order. However, this game had 3D sections where you could move in another axis, allowing 3D platforming. A general consensus believe that this is what made the game fail. To start with, 3D platforming isn't kind to MegaMan. This series requires rapid-reaction and pixel perfect jumps, something that can't be done easily in 3D due to the lack of precise depth-detection. Some areas needed to be made easier due to this, but this pretty much made them feel uninspired and relatively easy. Level design, the 3D camera and controls ended up creating these issues. Capcom realised their fault and made MegaMan X8 a completely 2D game with 3D graphics, but X7's failure diminished its sales.

The X games had a pretty interesting story, even if not as expanded as the Legends ones. However, X7 is proof that I wouldn't have enjoyed "that" Legends as much as the real one if it had been like you propose in your question.

---

However, despite my initial writing of making this short, I would like to propose a second question. What if MegaMan Legends had been released later (Obviously with a better presentation)? Would you like it as much as before? Would it have had a better future and/or better chances?

I always thought of MegaMan Legends being the "alpha version" of today's videogames. Most videogames nowadays (Especially adventure and, to an extent, action videogames) are all centered about the narrative and presentational aspects of the games. Much like MegaMan Legends, games nowadays are centered on telling huge stories in a cinematic way, having your character explore different areas, have movie-like cut-scenes and fight enemies along the way as you discover the plot. You also get action scenes that are sometimes "semi-playable" with quick action events, started by Shenmue but popularised by God of War. Of course, the new power of consoles allow areas that look better than simple blocks and that allow level designs similar to real architecture and wild areas, unlike the corridor-filled Legends game which had limits by the "even-then" low power of the PlayStation.

MegaMan Legends's biggest problem nowadays is that it is old. The story is too old for non-fans to remember/know about it and the fact that the 2nd game ended in a cliff-hanger doesn't help when it comes to sequel potential "now". Also, if a new MegaMan Legends game was to be made to cater to a "new" market not only would the story be a problem, but also the clunky controls. True, the level design could be updated as well as the controls so they could be something like E.X. Troopers, but then the fans would be angry for not feeling like a natural progression. Though honestly, how much natural can a progression be when updating a game by 2, possibly 3 generations? And in Capcom's position: If not for the fans, then who to make a new game for? If making it for someone else, would making a sequel to a really old game "that heavily involves story" be worth it?

That's why I think that, if this game had been made later in an enhanced engine, technology and time would have given it a better chance. (Though I'm not too sure about sales. This game style sales more now, but MegaMan doesn't sell as much anymore. The originals didn't sell well either at their prime.)

[Loken]

I figure if Legends was made like the other games the story would completely different. I can't see them introducing the Bonnes, digging, the npcs, the side quests, or even the RPG elements. I think it would mostly revolve around the Master System and the gameplay be all combat. Maybe the story would be of Trigger and Sera's split and Yuna would have taken Roll's place as 'girl who talks to you'.
As for the gameplay, I think it would similar to the legends style but set at a quicker pace. The level select menu and the end-stage bosses would probably be like Dashe said. Mostly I think it would be a terrible bore without all the charm and individuality the Legends games have. Legends relies alot on the sense of adventure and if it were to be like the other games that sense would be complete cut out.

As for Adrian's question of what if MML were made at a later date, I'm not quite sure. The PS1 was an era of alot of creativity and developers were taking alot more chances back then. I doubt Legends would have been made at all if not back then. But if it were I think that Capcom's producers would have been alot more involved with the game development and would have pushed for the game to more like other popular games of the day. We probably would have gotten a slightly edgier MML (Maybe HF would have liked it ) without all the npc interaction and more of a focus on combat.

But who knows right?

[HF]

Mar 11, 2013 19:02:38 GMT -5 Loken said:

We probably would have gotten a slightly edgier MML without all the npc interaction and more of a focus on combat.

As part of the EXE/Boktai crossover, this guy would have written it:

[Loken]

Oh boy, I can only imagine the weird, long codec calls with Roll. Legends already has a vague message about what it is to be human, Kojima would take that concept and wear it thin.

[HF]

"The Mirumijee is commonly found in groups, mostly in open areas. Be careful not to get cornered as they..."
"Okay, but how do they taste?"

[Dashe]

Hm, Legends as it is, but made at a later date...ultimately it depends on what later date you're talking about, but if I were to go with 2004/5 (which is pretty much where me liking gaming ended), I'd wager they'd have gone with a cel-shaded visual style with outlines instead of without them, and relied pretty heavily on anime-style conventions to carry the story. People would probably have compared it to Kingdom Hearts. Somehow they'd have also had Mega Man become brooding and serious once the showdown with Juno went down and he'd have wound up dealing with an existential crisis in 2, which they'd have milked for all it was worth. Teisel could've even been conventionally attractive, since Legends seems to be short on pretty boys, which were a pretty big thing in brightly-colored anime inspired games at the time.

[Mr. Foetus]

I highly doubt I would have been very into Legends if it hadn't been different. While I enjoy my platformers, my main preference is adventure. Wandering around, finding secrets, doing whatever I feel like doing at the time. I like my worlds open--the less linear the better. If Legends had been another copy, I probably would have played a bit of it and then been depressed for the rest of my life because I had nothing else to cheer me up enough. XD

As for if it were made later....I get the feeling it would be a bit darker, with less attention put into the lighthearted aspect of it. And it might have gone the Metroid route; first-person exploration, few or no NPCs, more reaverbot and ruin/sub-gate oriented. Which would have been well-received, and I probably would have loved it, but it's no Legends.

Oh, and there'd be DLC where you have to collect 8 pages of schematics while being stalked by a Slenderbot.

[Adrian2040]

Loken has a point. Capcom might have not risked making a MegaMan Legends-like game later. Loken's other point is true: If they did make the game later, then the story and its significance would have been more fleshed out. Combat would have to be improved too. However, I don't see why interaction with NPC's and the game's light-hearted appeal would be eliminated or even reduced. In this generation alone there has been hundreds of light-hearted, story-heavy and action-heavy games that have been extremely successful and offer way more exploration, side-quests and NPC interactions than the Legends games. You just have to know where to look. (And before you ask, I'm not talking about RPG's and First Party Games only.)

On a second note, I don't see how you can compare Legends to the incredibly linear (But still amazing) Kingdom Hearts franchise. They don't even share the same genre, plus KH as a whole is way darker than Legends. But I've got to admit, cel-shaded MegaMan Legends would be awesome.

[Mr. Foetus]

Mar 12, 2013 1:19:27 GMT -5 Adrian2040 said:

However, I don't see why interaction with NPC's and the game's light-hearted appeal would be eliminated or even reduced. In this generation alone there has been hundreds of light-hearted, story-heavy and action-heavy games that have been extremely successful and offer way more exploration, side-quests and NPC interactions than the Legends games. You just have to know where to look. (And before you ask, I'm not talking about RPG's and First Party Games only.)

Definitely agreed. But if we're talking about Capcom, then I highly doubt they'd go this route. Okami (one of my other favourite games of all time) was under Capcom, but they only published it. I just don't feel a "lighthearted" from them like I used to. They seem to have fallen into the "dark and edgy" hole that a lot of developers seem to fall into. I think the last game they did that wasn't dark and edgy was Viewtiful Joe, and that was just comedy for comedy's sake.

[Adrian2040]

1) The Ace Attorney games and the Battle Network/Star Force games are good examples of light-hearted games still being made by Capcom.
2) Okami and Viewtiful Joe were both developed by Clover Studios, a video game development team owned by Capcom. (They also created God Hand.) After Clover Studio's dismissal, Capcom made a sequel for Okami themselves. It was called Okamiden and was released for the Nintendo DS.

[Mr. Foetus]

Oh yeah, I'd forgotten Viewtiful Joe was done by Clover as well. Still, that just adds to my point. These are sequels to games that were either originally made by a differnt studio or made years ago when Capcom was still producing more lighthearted stuff. When it comes to producing original, non-sequels, these days they don't seem too interested in doing lighthearted stuff. Not to say they wouldn't produce an original piece of lighthearted material, but the chances of that seem pretty slim in comparison. Capcom would have to be in a pretty creative place in their head to make a modern Legends lighthearted.

I haven't written "lighthearted" this much since...I don't even know when.

[Kyle]

Mar 11, 2013 19:31:19 GMT -5 Loken said:

Oh boy, I can only imagine the weird, long codec calls with Roll. Legends already has a vague message about what it is to be human, Kojima would take that concept and wear it thin.

Y'know, Loken. I happened to come across an extremely poorly-translated comic strip on the web earlier. It made me think of you and HF. Engrish aside, seeing Volnutt with Solid Snake's bone structure is pretty damn amusing.

Kiiiiiinda disappointed that Teisel got the role of Liquid. I personally think Sera would've been better for the job.

*Fixed the URL

[SketchMan3]

Yes, I would have. In fact, when i bought the game, I thought that was what it was going to be. For some reason I thought I had seen a TV add for this game with a really cool, fast, sleak-looking Protoman as Megaman's rival. I don't know where that memory came from, or where it went, haha. But then Barrett comes along, lol. My false-memory protoman was more red than barrett, though.

I took the concept of "Legends" as being a meaningful part of the story, where I thought that every 100 years or so, a blue hero would rise up and defeat the evil purple haired monster, and that had been happening since the the bow and arrow days (I got that idea from misinterpreting the painting of the legendary hero). I thought it was both a prophecy and a record of the past.

Anyway, back on topic, I definitely would have enjoyed it just as much, because I love the classic formula. In my mind, I adapted the "deviate" style of MML to Classic Megaman parallels.

As far as gameply, I always wished that they'd made a Megaman game that had similar mechanics to Ape Escape (My all-time favorite PSX game of all-time, sorry MML). It seemed like the perfect 3d platforming style at the time. I thought Ape Escape was the future of 3d Platforming, and Megaman was soon to follow. Crash Bandicoot, pshaw.

[HF]

Oh hey, you're still around.

Apr 1, 2013 20:27:33 GMT -5 SketchMan3 said:

I took the concept of "Legends" as being a meaningful part of the story, where I thought that every 100 years or so, a blue hero would rise up and defeat the evil purple haired monster, and that had been happening since the the bow and arrow days (I got that idea from misinterpreting the painting of the legendary hero). I thought it was both a prophecy and a record of the past.

Then you get the subplot of Slayers.