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Post by Blyka on Mar 21, 2009 17:54:59 GMT -5
First of all, thanks to everyone who has commented for commenting and supplying me with quite an abundance of constructive criticism, harsh though it has been. I think the obvious and very strong complaints from everyone are the grid-movement engine and Tuttle’s offensive abilities, so I’ll start by addressing these. The grid-based movement was carried over from the original Nazo Nazo game, which was originally very heavy on the block pushing, Sokoban concept, and the grid-based movement is definitely more suited to such a game. Due to Tuttle expanding beyond what Nazo Nazo was to be I just very recently started weighing the pros and cons of the grid-based engine as opposed to free movement and am, especially after the negativity of the reviews thus far, seriously considering a change there... but no decisions yet. As for Tuttle’s offensive abilities, I’m really not certain what we could realistically change here. The cane (with a 14 pixel reach btw) is supposed to be Tuttle’s only weapon (a buster would be completely out of character (as well as completely alter the mechanics of the game)), but I suppose we might stretch realism here and increase its length a bit... and the splash mines are in fact quite powerful; has anyone stacked two on top of each other? Also to keep in mind: the combat system was designed while considering the fact that the key game play is puzzles; block pushing, key collecting, tile filling, maze navigating and other enemy-less puzzles. The game wasn’t really designed with hardcore action in mind. @ JMC: You certainly have burnt Tuttle to a crisp, but I take no offense and I do appreciate receiving lengthy, thoughtful and constructive criticism from an experienced game designer. Really. Constructive criticism always leads to a better game. Music looping: MP3s in Game Maker hiccup before they loop, so I didn’t bother trying to loop correctly for the demo. Much time has been poured into looking into better music options, and more will be; rest assured music will not fade out in the real game. Maze room: Sorry you hate this room so much, but rather than a bad design decision I would call this a maze. Mazes are supposed to be big, long and full of dead ends, so if that’s not your kind of thing I’m sorry to say this game will have them. Granted, some more interesting than others, but the size and dead ends are integral parts of a maze. Enemy shots passing through walls: If they didn’t that would render them pretty useless, wouldn’t you say? And the moveable walls block them to serve as cover as you push them where necessary, otherwise I would be in full agreement that the enemies have an unfair advantage. Beyond the many criticisms, thanks much for your compliments! Coming from the man who grills every fan game he touches they mean a lot. @ B-R-E-T: Thanks for the compliments- you’ve definitely had the best ratio of positive to negative comments so far. And no worries- I usually don’t listen to the folks who make the industry stale with mindless cake-walk games. Most of my games are considered quite difficult. ‘Non-linearity or optional dungeons’ - Not sure if you mean in a single ruin itself or in the game as a whole; particular ruins might have optional paths but no decisions have been made there, and the game as a whole will be very non-linear and epic. Many optional ruins and large overworld areas will be open for exploration. @ Dragge: Seems like everyone who has posted has finished the block puzzle so far. Just keep trying and it'll click eventually. Good luck! Again, thanks for the comments! Keep ‘em coming.
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Post by Pitch on Mar 21, 2009 18:13:23 GMT -5
and the splash mines are in fact quite powerful; has anyone stacked two on top of each other? ∗raises hand∗ I don't have an awful lot to say about the game, but mainly just because puzzle games aren't really my bag. I attempted the room that others seem to be incapable of passing a few times, found myself similarly incapable and lost interest. What I saw seemed good.
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Post by Chiz on Mar 21, 2009 19:00:38 GMT -5
Combat is not good. I don't know how it could be misinterpreted as good. Could someone tell me the exact range. 3, maybe 4 pixels? a quarter of a tile? I can't tell. It's a huge problem when trying to use the default weapon to kill anything. One mine is absolutely useless for combat. Use 2 mines laid down at the same time on the same tile. It has a 1 tile radius in all 8-directions (just like pretty much every other blast). On the other hand, there are enemies (the purple things in room #5, I believe) which work best by batting them away with your cane. Now, I'd love to hear how the long maze room is meant to be fun... not to make fun of it, but because I really don't understand. There was no puzzle, there was no enemies, no challenge. Just ten of fifteen minutes of dead ends, realizing I missed one, another dead end. I'd love to play further, it's not a bad game, just has some quirks, but I'm not doing that room again. Agreed, the giant maze in room #4 is a real pain without any challenge beyond testing one's patience. If you added a run button that made movement more dangerous, such as if you were running you could fall in pits and the such. Some sort of quick-move option is a must, especially if we're expected to forfeit a fifth of health (or two) because a chest is guarded by one, as in room #3, as it's impossible (or near-impossible, perhaps; I haven't been able to do it) to get by without being hit both into the little niche and out of it. Oh, and yes, I will grill/fry any fan game posted on this forum eventually... (I can't run Punkman Dash... so it survives another day >.<) Bitter much?
Anyways...the game looks great. One complaint I have is that reaverbots and their shots completely disregard the gray tiles, but are blocked by the brown crates and any doors (leading to the situation in room #1 where you can be safe from the bottom reaverbot's bullets by standing approximately above the White Refractor door, but step to the left and right and, despite the fact that there's still a wall between you and it, it can now hit you. The block puzzle in room #2, floor puzzle in #3...definitely want to see more of that. I too grew up with games like Sokoban and Chip's Challenge, so I'm right at home with that sort of thing. Can't say I care for #4, as stated above, due to not only its size, but that there's no thought needed. If it were a more complex maze, perhaps, but the speed limitations of Tuttle would probably prevent even this from being an enjoyable experience. The water thing was a nice touch...so was the "We all wait for something" line that played when you idled for a bit. Still trying to get past room 5 to meet up with that digger on the other side. Hopefully that'll change soon Just finished. That was anticlimactic EDIT: Bah...I go to post, and then 3 people squeeze in before me. *throws arms up in disgust*
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Post by JMC47 on Mar 21, 2009 19:08:16 GMT -5
On the combat situation... has anyone gotten past the purple thing in room 5? Really? I'm not willing to try again because of room 4, but uh, I don't know if it's even possible outside of excellent mine planning (which I'm sure the creators could pull off) or perfect cane usage.
Also, since this game is running at a high resolution compared to older games... still... the reach of the cane is still too little. And even if a buster is out of character... it'd at least give us a fighting chance and making it through!
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Post by fAB on Mar 21, 2009 21:02:10 GMT -5
I don't see what the big deal is with the maze room. I didn't design it or see it beforehand, and I didn't have much trouble on my first play through it. I got turned around a few times, sure, such is the nature of mazes. Now that I know my way around it better (my fifth time through it just now) it took 3 and a half minutes, even still with a few wrong turns. That's less time than it would take me to get on the forums and make a complaint post about the room. I'm really kinda shocked that the most problematic room for people is that one, as it's the easiest one. Maybe it's a tad tedious but you can't die and you're guaranteed success with enough walking. *shrugs* Maybe people just don't like mazes the way Green's not really into puzzle games. Tuttle's going to be a very mixed bag all around, within and outside of the ruins. I think that's pretty lame that someone would refuse to play though a game just because they don't like doing a little wandering around in a maze... On the subject of combat and the "creators being able to pull it off," I had never actually played this game until Blyka handed me the demo yesterday. My first attempt got me to the final room where I was very effectively killed by the Amistal. On my second try I died by accidentally blowing myself with Splash Mines in the Orudakoitan room. Third try, back at the Amistal, died again. Fourth try, had perfected my timing with the cane and mine setting enough that I beat it with only taking one hit. This game is primarily a puzzle game, and the strategy element isn't just for pushing blocks, it also applies to battles. If you want to beat the Amistal, work your way towards it cautiously, stop and swing at the oncoming little one, then take two or three steps forward and stop to time your hit for the next one. Once close enough to the producer, drop those double Splash Mines and run for it. It isn't difficult, you just have to get the feel for it and realize you can't charge at a big reaverbot directly with a cane. Perhaps as Legends players we're too used to easy lock-on and blast, blast, blasting our enemies.
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Post by JMC47 on Mar 21, 2009 21:40:17 GMT -5
It's not that at all... it's just that combat is so cumbersome, and you die so quickly, that there is no time to formulate a plan.
And it's not that the maze room is bad... it's just not... fun? It doesn't belong. All these great puzzles (Room 2 and 3) and then Room 4 and 5... it's just stark contrast... When you take the combat out of rooms, the game becomes a lot better. I don't know how many people would disagree with me, hopefully none. But when one part of the game is so much better, and the focus seems on the other... I don't know.
I could beat the Amistal if I had a few chances, but usually I'm down to 3 or 4 health because of how cheap the reaverbots are with their firing in the first room, and I want to get the treasure chest with the old bone or whatever. Regardless. Maybe I'm the minority here, but it just seems like combat could be a ton better. As is I feel it's not good at all. Doubling mines helps a bit on the earlier reaverbots. I love strategy and all, seriously, but it's just an exercise in frustration to get all the way back after a simple mistake.
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Post by Dragge on Mar 21, 2009 22:16:23 GMT -5
Alright I made it to the room with the Amistal reaverbot. I still like the game and can't wait to see what happens after that point.
Edit: I like the ending and can't wait until the full version of it comes out! Keep up the work Blyka!
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Post by in·clover on Mar 22, 2009 14:52:11 GMT -5
It's not that at all... it's just that combat is so cumbersome, and you die so quickly, that there is no time to formulate a plan. Yeah. I mean, c'mon. The man evidently knows kung-fu. Didn't you guys see him traverse that one trap in MoTB? Tuttles' got mad skillz. Hiya! Fu! Cha!
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Post by Blyka on Mar 22, 2009 20:19:28 GMT -5
Thanks for the new comments and compliments, everyone!
Last night fab and I had an extensive discussion concerning all aspects of the game, and some decisions were made that will modify the game in ways people have specifically suggested (or demanded), and also some unrequested features will be added to the engine to hopefully make it much more enjoyable and accessible to everyone, as well as give the game even more depth than it already has.
Work on a new Tuttle engine began this afternoon, and a new demo will be released when it's finished. Until then enjoy (or try to anyhow) the current demo, and I'd still appreciate hearing comments should anyone have them.
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Post by Chiz on Mar 24, 2009 1:43:48 GMT -5
Thinking about it, here's a few suggested features the game could use... Room Suggestions: - The room 3 tile puzzle, perhaps adding addition colours that signify needing to step on the same tile more than once? Like having Purple (4), Blue (3), Green (2), Yellow (1), Red (0).
- Iced or slicked floors, where both crates and you can't stop until you hit something.
- Paths over/under other paths, if possible. They wouldn't need anything in them, simply have a shadow of an entrance on both ends (or stairs down/up), and the player would just walk through or maybe push crates through.
- Different hole depths. Instead of just holes for 1 crate, perhaps holes for 2 or 3, and even infinitely deep holes which swallow all crates that pass over it.
- Multiple entrances and exits; allow for backtracking through rooms. Allowing for left/right-side exits would also be a bit of a must if this were implemented.
- Floor buttons that temporarily (when pressed) or permanently (once pressed) change something, perhaps activating or deactivating traps amongst other things.
Controls/Movement Suggestions: - If not a run button (which might be unnecessary if there aren't long stretches of path to cover), at least a 3-4 second sprint button.
- A crouch button to duck behind a gray tiles, so you aren't hit by Reaverbot projectiles or possibly even detected by them (would only work if you're against the gray wall that's between you and it). A crawl feature might also be interesting.
- A Battle-cry button ("Hi-yah! Fu! Cha!") to match the laugh button
Other Suggestions: - Perhaps when a reaverbot blows up, it leaves behind a little zenny, health, and weapon energy like in the original trilogy?
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Post by Blyka on Mar 25, 2009 21:10:18 GMT -5
Thinking about it, here's a few suggested features the game could use... Room Suggestions: - The room 3 tile puzzle, perhaps adding addition colours that signify needing to step on the same tile more than once? Like having Purple (4), Blue (3), Green (2), Yellow (1), Red (0).
- Iced or slicked floors, where both crates and you can't stop until you hit something.
- Paths over/under other paths, if possible. They wouldn't need anything in them, simply have a shadow of an entrance on both ends (or stairs down/up), and the player would just walk through or maybe push crates through.
- Different hole depths. Instead of just holes for 1 crate, perhaps holes for 2 or 3, and even infinitely deep holes which swallow all crates that pass over it.
- Multiple entrances and exits; allow for backtracking through rooms. Allowing for left/right-side exits would also be a bit of a must if this were implemented.
- Floor buttons that temporarily (when pressed) or permanently (once pressed) change something, perhaps activating or deactivating traps amongst other things.
Controls/Movement Suggestions: - If not a run button (which might be unnecessary if there aren't long stretches of path to cover), at least a 3-4 second sprint button.
- A crouch button to duck behind a gray tiles, so you aren't hit by Reaverbot projectiles or possibly even detected by them (would only work if you're against the gray wall that's between you and it). A crawl feature might also be interesting.
- A Battle-cry button ("Hi-yah! Fu! Cha!") to match the laugh button
Other Suggestions: - Perhaps when a reaverbot blows up, it leaves behind a little zenny, health, and weapon energy like in the original trilogy?
Thanks for the suggestions. Of course the current release is just a demo, so a lot of these suggestions are in fact already implemented or planned out.
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Post by fAB on Apr 10, 2009 10:16:53 GMT -5
Yo everybody! I'm pleased that Sky Pirate Arcade has hooked a lot of interest with big projects like Megaman Digger and Tuttle's Little 5-Island Adventure, but the original game plan (no pun intended) was more along the lines of creating an abundance of mini-games. In keeping with that, and to add to the Arcade's lacking "completed" games list, I've come up with a new mini-game called Sart Farm Stampede. It's meant to be short and fun, but also requires some skill to obtain higher scores. The focus for this game's development was on time spent. I was aiming for a 15 hour game with Sart Farm Stampede, it ended up being 25 hours. That's still not all that much. I wanted to create something fast, and in doing so, hopefully inspire others to consider working on more mini-games like this one. When I made the decision to allow submissions to SPA I didn't figure on it being a hot spot of activity, but neither did I think that it would remain completely empty after 9 months... I know there are fan game projects out there, but I'd sure love to see more from this community. It's okay to create something that doesn't blow people away. As long as it's fun and well made, people will enjoy playing it.
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Post by Mr. Ninja on Apr 10, 2009 11:25:23 GMT -5
So I played Sart Farm, beat it, and thought it was great. Great work, Fab! I'm also looking forward to seeing MegaMan Digger and Tuttles Little 5 Island Adventure completed too! By the way, I still can't get past the First level in Tuttle's Little 5 Island Adventure...
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Post by bdk336 on Apr 13, 2009 20:06:35 GMT -5
For the benefit of the arcade I've got a short game under progress right now in addition to a larger one, although it might take a little while with school and all the other projects I'm undertaking on my own initiative right now (not gonna list them unless you really want me to).
I haven't tried tuttle yet but I'm about to.
Also maybe it would be good to encourage people to contribute new versions of games as they create levels, that would probably spark more interest in the arcade and might inspire other people to continue or start projects of their own.
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Post by Dragge on Aug 6, 2009 9:36:11 GMT -5
I played the demo of fab's new BLumebear game and thought it was amazingly put together. I can't wait to see that finished. For anyone who's wondering what the heck am I talking about it's the newest additions to the demos on the sky pirate arcade. I really think this game might have potential.
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