A Different Perspective...

[fAB]

Liek OMG Fab statred a actul t opic not bout teh forms!!1!

Yeah, seriously, I haven't started a thread in a long time, other than those that relate to the site in some way. The idea for this topic came to me as I was reading Illogical, Quick Cheetah's fan fiction that recently had its final chapters posted on the site. While personally I'm not usually wild about fan fiction, I must admit that I loved Illogical. It's definitely my favorite of all those I've read (and no arrond, I still haven't read A Different Place yet LOL).

Anyway, back to the point. For those who aren't familiar with the fic, it takes the story of Sera and Geetz (Jiji) and writes out the events from their perspectives. It's very thorough in conveying their thoughts, and it keeps them both very much true to character.

When I bought MML2 so many years ago, I had already gathered what info I could from magazines and occasional Internet usage on my uncle's computer. Naturally I had played the demo that came with MOTB. I was so into the mystery that the Mother Units seemed to possess, particularly Yuna. I'd play the demo over and over, each time stopping and inspecting the dropship from every angle, zooming in on those pigtails... And no, I'm not embarrassed about having looked up Yuna's skirt!

So anyway, to get back on track... When it became evident that Sera was going to be my enemy, I was still quite prepared to like her, and eagerly looked forward to what role she would play in the unfolding plot. Geetz, on the other hand... Who was this snobby sounding, weirdo elf man who is so horrible at lying? I didn't care for him at all... Downright hated him in fact. Then he goes standing calmly in his room, waiting to cause me trouble, and tries blowing me up toward the end! This guy was not a likeable enemy in my eyes!

But then there's another perspective, one that had never occured to me...

The Geetz that Quick Cheetah saw, was one of loyalty and devotion, who was willing to sacrifice himself not only for his duty, but for the one he cared most about. What admirable qualities! What a great guy! What a cool, interesting character!

OY?! *!major record screech!*

There are so many gray areas in the Legends series, and people go on long and exhausting posts trying to prove their theories... Issues such as Trigger being a carbon, human, or robot, and similar topics are quite interesting to hear different perspectives on.

But Geetz is not a gray area as such. Quick Cheetah and I had looked at the same character, with the same set of knowledge, and interpreted him totally differently! I was momentarily wowed by this concept. It wasn't like a typical Roll Vs Tron poll, where people simply disagree on which character is the coolest... After reading Illogical, I now have a much greater appreciation and respect for Geetz, and was actually feeling kind of down when he met his end in the fic, as opposed to cheering when he blew up in the game. I begin to wonder what other new perspectives might be out there in this series... Indeed I do wonder...



...comments, anyone?

[JMC47]

Great, now I have to go play through the entire game pretending that the bad guys are just doing their job.

The system is wierd in MML, Juno, is the only final boss in a game that isn't evil, he is just doing his job, yet many casual gamers just interpret him as a mass murderer, when all he is doing is keeping the ecosystem in balance, what if that fact that he doesn't do that anymore upsets the ecosystem and then causes all kinds of trouble.

Geetz... uh, A sacrificial attempt to stop you... KAMIKAZE, he gave his life for his mission.

Now here is a view that I have never thought about, YUNA IS A BAD GUY ESSENTIALLY. She is the one who supports the downfall of the system, she is the rebel that you would usually hunt down in a game, the person trying to over throw the Utopian society. Yuna has the makings to be a good enemy, she knows the system inside out, wants it destroyed, and has henchmen, the only thing is that we are on her side, therefore we are the rebels trying to save a planet from the system that is making it so the planet has an ecological balance... wow, tongue twister.

Another thing is MegaMan, who really doesn't matter, he is the run in the mill hero, very stale personality that everyone likes. I would have to wonder what their personalities were before the master died, was Sera as cold, was MegaMan still a good person, or a emotionless servant.

Now the Bonnes are widely known as people making a living off of piracy, and nobody really thinks of them as evil, but, they destroy cities, shoot people, rob towns, blow up banks, try to shoot down air vehicles, rob ancient treasures, rob wily's boat yard (twice). How are they not considered evil. Capcom could of easily made them stereotypical enemies, but instead they gave us a glimpse into a personality that over threw their actions. Its very strange how they aren't considered evil, maybe we should take a second look at that.

Reaverbots, A topic long ago sought to prove that they were not attackers, but defenders, but that topic is on the back page of this section. Now of course, reaverbots usually only attack you if you go near them or attack them, yet they are treated like the common enemy, rather than a apt defender.

Anthro units, very little is revealed about these, but we know they preceded the betas (carbons) and they lived what used to be under ground, and were DEFENDED by the reaverbots from intrusions. I believe the anthro units were under attack from another species, or else why would they have an alarm set that if you set up reaverbots are released? Some people look at them as the stereotypical life form, when which they could of been just like the carbons, except in the yester years.

Master himself I always saw as a virtuous person, but he made the system that eradicates the people. I have to wonder sometimes if he used to be a cruel ruler and then something changed his way of thinking.

Hopefully you see things differently than me, because its always fun to think of something differently.

[pitch]

As for Geetz, the loyal servant thing is to be expected, just as it was with Gatz(although Gatz had a much cooler voice actor). They're both programmed to be loyal.

Geetz: Yes, the directive of this unit is insuring your safety.
~~~~~~
Gatts(is that how it's spelled...?): While this Unit has, reservations about destroying the System, it will do its utmost to assist you.

They're Servitor Units. It's their job.

justinc said:

YUNA IS A BAD GUY ESSENTIALLY. She is the one who supports the downfall of the system, she is the rebel that you would usually hunt down in a game, the person trying to over throw the Utopian society. Yuna has the makings to be a good enemy, she knows the system inside out, wants it destroyed, and has henchmen, the only thing is that we are on her side, therefore we are the rebels trying to save a planet from the system that is making it so the planet has an ecological balance... wow, tongue twister

Yuna was neutral up until the point where she saw Trigger's last memory of the Master in Trigger's memory file
She's no rebel... *scratch what I said earlier*

"Yuna fought against you with the rest, but as time went by, she slowly came to understand what you were trying to do."

^Yuna still couldn't rebel against the system at this point so she remained neutral. Then when the incident with Banner and Matilda happened, Yuna was free of the System's control and able to do what she thought was right. The memory file thing probably is what swayed her decision most, though her point was still pretty much neutral. In her words, she tells Trigger to "be true to himself and follow where his heart leads him". The only real sign of rebellion in Yuna is the time she has Gatz try to stop Sera in Elysium.

Another thing is MegaMan, who really doesn't matter, he is the run in the mill hero, very stale personality that everyone likes. I would have to wonder what their personalities were before the master died, was Sera as cold, was MegaMan still a good person, or a emotionless servant.

I can't say for Trigger, but Sera seems much the same as she is in MML2(based on Trigger's memory file scene). And of course that's entirely logical. Sera was just put in stasis. Trigger was completely reset. Even so, that said, I doubt he was the typical servant character. Why else would the Master have such an interest in him? Trigger was probably older though.

Now the Bonnes are widely known as people making a living off of piracy, and nobody really thinks of them as evil, but, they destroy cities, shoot people, rob towns, blow up banks, try to shoot down air vehicles, rob ancient treasures, rob wily's boat yard (twice). How are they not considered evil. Capcom could of easily made them stereotypical enemies, but instead they gave us a glimpse into a personality that over threw their actions. Its very strange how they aren't considered evil, maybe we should take a second look at that.

Well... yeah they're pirates, but I guess the idea is that they don't shoot to kill. I dunno, the destroying Towns thing and all that... I guess they could be considered evil...

I'm not gunna argue about the Reaverbot thing

Master himself I always saw as a virtuous person, but he made the system that eradicates the people. I have to wonder sometimes if he used to be a cruel ruler and then something changed his way of thinking.

It took 3000 years, but the Master eventually realized that Elysium was, in his own words, "cold and sterile". The thing about that is... the carbons of that time were truly nothing but machines. The betas really. Toward the end of his lifespan the Master created Carbons that were a lot more human like. Need I quote him? ah whatever

Beautiful, is it not? These lights are one of the betas' cities.
But these are not ordinary betas, I have modified them slightly. Betas, you
call them carbons. Though artificially created, in the end they may be
closer to, people, than you think. The people living there know thirst,
hunger, disease, they suffer all these things and in the end, they grow old
and die. But for one brief moment, they shine as bright as the sun.
Because they know these hardships, they also know the meaning of happiness.
Compared to theirs, our perfect world is cold and sterile.

[JMC47]

If Yuna was nuetral, like she says even, why would she spot you through Elysium defense zone. Because she isn't toward the end. She states she is nuetral and than spots you right the the Carbon Reinitialization Control box. She may not of started as the systems enemy, but in the end she was a rebel, helping destroy elysiums systems.

Carbons and Betas are the same thing

And highly doubt what I said was right about the master, I just was trying another perpective.

[pitch]

Yeah that's right... so they were alphas then.

justinc said:

If Yuna was nuetral, like she says even, why would she spot you through Elysium defense zone. Because she isn't toward the end. She states she is nuetral and than spots you right the the Carbon Reinitialization Control box. She may not of started as the systems enemy, but in the end she was a rebel, helping destroy elysiums systems.

Isn't that what I said...? I mean yeah she wasn't against the system in the beginning. I don't even think she was against it in the end either. Trigger went in first and formost to stop Sera from killing everybody else. Not to shut the system down completely(that just happened to happen, probably because both Mother Units had become nonexistant).

Either way, the System is the bad guy, not Yuna(She's neither bad nor is she a guy). Were not BOTH Sera and Yuna seemingly happy that the Elders and their machines had activated in the end?

[amandpunk]

Sera or Yuna might have been happy, but one might have been thinking of somethign evil, while the otherone was just nervouseish... When I get nervouse I start to act happy...

[pitch]

Legends 2 ending spoilers:

Yuna: Don't think you're going to get off that easily, Sera! You were
always too stubborn for your own good! If you had a shell, you could
transfer your primary programs over, right? Gatts is dead, he died because
of your gamble! If you die as well, who will be left to keep me company?
You can't fool me, I know you can hear me! Still going to ignore me, then
let me tell you something! Now that Elysium is no longer functioning, the
old System the Master's people shut down has started to reactivate. It was
your responsibility to monitor it. If you die, and it takes over, the
Master's work was for nothing! Do you want that?
Sera (now in Yuna's old body): Do you mean to say that? The Elder's System
is becoming active again?
(Sera opens her eyes, then Yuna sets Sera down)
Yuna: There are remnants of that System buried all over Terra in what the
carbons call ruins. There's so many even I don't know if how many there
are. I doubt they've be fully active soon, but eventually they will. If
we don't do anything, just imagine what will happen to Terra and all its
people. If the Elders and their machines activate, what will your sacrifice
here have been for? What do you say, Sera? Are you up for living with the
people the Master left behind? Could be a little wild, but interesting!
Sera: Perhaps it might be worthwhile.
Yuna: I can't remember, the last time I saw you smile, Sera!
Sera: I'll think about it, once we figure out a way, to return to Terra!

Evidently, watching the Elder System was Sera's job. Perhaps I was a tad off in saying that they were happy the elder System was reactivating, though... Looking at this, it would seem they intend to create a new System. Those parts in bold though, show Yuna's thoughts on the matter, and Sera smiling shows hers really.

[Santa Melty]

Meh, how confusing... Well, all of the system characters, barring the Master himself and the other elders, were supposedly limited to thinking and acting only within their program. Even then, however, they still expressed their own thoughts and feelings. Sera, for example, believed in following the system and denounced the Master's idea for the new Beta units, if I remember correctly. Yuna, even under the influence of the system, cared about the carbons enough to sacrifice her own body for one. I think that, being higher ranked units, they were allowed to hold their own opinions. They were all less limited by the system then someone like, say, Juno, who was a mere officer of sorts, forced to follow the book down to the punctuation. Neither Sera nor Yuna were ever neutral. Working off of this possibility, I think that it may be because of their original programming that they retained their personalities after separation from the system. Most people seem to think that after being released they were suddenly in control of their own actions entirely. I don’t believe that. As stated, Trigger was the only one reset, so he may have changed significantly personality-wise. Sera and Yuna were never reset. So Yuna, perhaps, was originally programmed to care for the carbons and units of Terra while Sera was programmed for the upkeep of the system’s… system. Seems to make sense based off of the information I’ve seen. After Yuna was released from her program, she may have held to her programmed ideals for so long that they were instilled into her, so that even after she was no longer part of the system she still believed them to be true. Sera was never released until the end of the game. Even then, she still seemed awfully biased to me. Likely because she went into Yuna’s body. After she went into Yuna’s body, it is a distinct possibility that she was freed, since she was no longer in her original configuration. But then, isn’t it also possible that she conformed to Yuna’s original programming? I’ve never seen anyone change their minds as quickly as her. Either way, it’s safe to assume that she no longer held to her former limitations, since if she did, she would have never agreed to help the carbons. She wouldn’t have cared. She wouldn’t have been able to, since it was not her concern, and was therefore banned from caring.

So I guess my point is that they were released from the system yet were in it for so long that it stuck with them. To that end, it also must have meant that they were not neutral, since they were both programmed to be concerned with different matters.

And so ends my opinion of Sera and Yuna. As for everyone else, Trigger is stale, the Master has cool hair and is therefore always correct, Roll and Barrel are evil pirates that brainwashed Megaman to do their dirty work, Glyde is trying to find his long-lost brother, the Bonnes are Team Rocket is disguise, and I’m done.

[pitch]

Yuna is the Mother Unit that watches over Terra, Sera does the same for Elysium. Makes me wonder... where does Yuna live? I'm assuming she went there after the incidents at Forbidden Island in MML2.

I've been toying with an idea as to why Yuna is able to change her position in the battle between Trigger and the System. And that's that she - like the betas - is a modified unit, programmed to think and feel all those things. And that would explain why Sera would after being transferred into Yuna's body I suppose... I dunno, it's just an idea I had.

Either way both Mother Units seem to feel emotions which are really the cause for some of their actions. I mean, doesn't Sera say that by defeating Trigger she could "purge herself of those troublesome emotions"? Perhaps Yuna was able to realize how cold and sterile(I love the way those words go together) the System was, like the Master did and then she switched sides as well... I dunno. There's not enough...

XD I's just thinking, if Capcom does make a Legends 3, it's not gunna be nearly as complex as everybody here makes it out to be. We should be the ones working at Capcom I tells ya... ;D

[JMC47]

No, Yuna says when she changed into Matildas body to save it, it broke all her bonds to the system, so if she went back in her regular body, she would most likely not be under bondage to the system. Anyway, most of the perspectives I posted were for no reason, just trying to show how we could of mispercieved the characters.

[Santa Melty]

My dear Mr. 47, there is no such thing as a false interpretation. I for one found your opinions very thought provoking.

I was under the impression that those who were under the system were created to work and manage it. What would be the point of that if one could simply break free whenever one wishes? I think that it may have been some sort of loophole in Yuna's programming that allowed her to enter Matilda's body, thus freeing her from the system. It's all rather complex...

Good point though. We should direct someone from Capcom to these forums. Perhaps a few of us could land a career in video game design and scripting. The fans are frequently more impassioned for the product then the creator, I find.

[pitch]

I'd just like to point out, Yuna and Matilda are both essentially the same type of machine. Therefore Yuna transferring her nanomachines into Matilda to save her is entirely possible. What confuses me is how Matilda is still in the body at this point. I'dve figured it would've been a tradeoff, but then Sera inhabitted Yuna's former shell.

[Santa Melty]

Wait a minute now... It has been quite some time since I’ve played the game, but isn’t Yuna a mother unit and Matilda a carbon? They can’t be the same type of machine. If anything, I’d say that Matilda has an inferior makeup to that of Yuna, allowing Yuna to transfer her nanomachines, or whatever it was that she did. And in all possibility, being as superior as they were, I’m sure a mother unit could coexist in a carbon’s body by creating some sort of backup of her memories and character using either her own storage space or that of the system.

Yeah, yeah, laugh at me for my insane theories. This is sci-fi, baby. Just about anything is possible. *flies away on a broomstick*

[pitch]

mltmlt22 said:

Wait a minute now... It has been quite some time since I’ve played the game, but isn’t Yuna a mother unit and Matilda a carbon? They can’t be the same type of machine. If anything, I’d say that Matilda has an inferior makeup to that of Yuna, allowing Yuna to transfer her nanomachines, or whatever it was that she did. And in all possibility, being as superior as they were, I’m sure a mother unit could coexist in a carbon’s body by creating some sort of backup of her memories and character using either her own storage space or that of the system.

Yeah, yeah, laugh at me for my insane theories. This is sci-fi, baby. Just about anything is possible. *flies away on a broomstick*

...well I had meant that they were both humanoid machines...

Of course Yuna couldn't TOTALLY transfer herself over, but she transferred her... I believe they're called "primary programs"(<term Yuna uses when she has Sera inhabit her old body). Sera even makes a point of saying that in Matilda's body, Yuna is not a mother unit.

As for the coexistence of two beings in one shell... I suppose that makes sense... I don't like it much though.

[Santa Melty]

Ah, but two things can look alike and have a similar composition, and yet be totally incompatible. Learned that the hard way.

Yes, primary programs, that's what they were called. I assume the secondary programs included her ties to the system and all that jazz, while the primary had her memories, knowledge, and overall identity. Yuna must have left hers behind when she moves in with Matilda...

Why not? Coexistence seems like a nifty idea to me. My alter ego may think otherwise though...