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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jun 29, 2011 21:18:48 GMT -5
I just found out this mornig that I'm not the only wrestling fan here, wich has me pleased! Until there's a sports discoussion, I guess I'll plunk this thread in the Contemporary Pop-Culture Discoussion board.
For the record, I'm not a WWE or TNA guy because they are what's known as "Sports Entertainment." A homogonized soap-opera for men, with a wrestling ring in it and wrestlers as the actors. It used to be pretty entertaining in the 90's, and every once in a while you'll see an okay match, but since the 2000's it's been mostly bland, unfunny slapstick with a champion, a few valets, (not very good ones either,) and occasionaly a midjet who can't talk, or an uncomfortable stare-down behind an undisclosed corriodor. And most of the matches are over choreographed routenes made up of only four to eight moves a peice, that usualy end in more poorly written slapstick, or a couple of nonscensical run-ins with people who have nothing to do with the competitors inside the ring, wich all end in a big shmoz as Bret "The Hitman" Hart would put it. It's over-scripted nonscense like this that gives all wrestling a bad name, because to the non-fan or even a casual fan, they think it's wrestling, and with how confusing it is to watch, it just makes all wrestling look fake.
But what keeps me going as a wrestling fan, are the independants, and Japanese orginizations. They offer actual Professional Wrestling. Sure they too have colorful characters here and there, sure they too choreograph some moves, but it's harder hitting. Faster paced. Less scripted, and most of all, the main foccus is on the matches. You'll get some interviews, sometimes even arguments, but 95 to 99% of the show will be action, with the other 5 or 1% being intermissions. Plus, after wrestling shows, (independant ones atleast,) you can talk with the talent. Since I was 13 years old, and started going to indie shows live and in person, I have befriended almost the entire ROH roster, a few AAW guys and gals, and a third of the Dragongate USA roster. Some of whom are now WWE stars in CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, Even Bourne, and Kharma, and some TNA talent like "The fallen angel" Chrsitopher Daniels, Brian Kendrick, Austin Aries, Samoa Joe, and "The rock and rave infection" Jimmy Rave. Promotions like ROH, Dragongate USA, AAW, NWA, Chikara, SHIMMER Women's Atheletes, MXPW, HYBRID Wrestling, CLASH, UWA Hardcore, NJPW, UWF, Pro Wrestling NOAH, ZERO-1, and AJPW keep my heart and passion for wrestling alive, because they keep wrestling alive. Sure most of them aren't televised, (although ROH will come back to TV in September,) and sure they may not have as big production as WWE or TNA, but what they lack in production, they more than make up for in quality.I've been spoiled ever since I switched to digital cable and found IWA Puerto Rico and the unfortunatly defunct MLW.
So since there are a few more wrestling fans than just me, I thought it was time I started a wrestling discoussion. If you're a fellow fan, post some random wrestling stuff here. If not, or if you think it's all fake or gay, (No diss to homosexuals, some haters like to call this great sport gay as an insult,) then you can just ignore this thread. Pure and simple.
So let's do this!
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Post by Rockman Striker on Jun 30, 2011 12:54:03 GMT -5
I didn´t expect you were SO passionate that you actually know all that! I mentioned Sin Cara on your introductory post, well my sister was a big fan of Místico when he was on CMLL and eventually I became his fan too. Another new mexican on WWE is Alberto del Rio known here in Mexico masked as Dos Caras, funny thing because they were rivals on CMLL, both names have the word "face" on their names.
I agree with you Handlebar, WWE is more show than fight, that´s why I lost some interest on it, about why people call the fights "fake" it´s because of the choreography based fights, I´m sure you noticed the difference between USA, Mexico and Japan wrestling, here in Mexico the fights are more "aerial" the wrestlers jumps most often out of the ring and some others like the style "Al raz de la lona" where they use grapples and counter-grapples most of the fight, when a wrestler makes a corkscrew jump, obviously the other wrestler HAVE to receive the attack, or else, the other could result several injured or even death, that´s why I think the people call the fights fake.
I personally dislike AAA because they try to imitate WWE but their fights are more brutal, most of the time the wrestlers are bleeding, this is not the case in CMLL where the fights are less "sadistic" but more technical.
I haven´t seen Japanese matches, but I saw fighting Jushin Thunder Liger, Okumura, Ultimo Dragon, Ayumi and others when they fight on CMLL.
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jun 30, 2011 16:39:16 GMT -5
I lost intrest in AAA because the wrestling there is so sloppy. When you see greats like Dr Wagner J.r or Silver King in other promotions, they are some of the absolute best Mexico has to offer. But in AAA, they're sloppier than gineric Velvita dip. It's the same bullcrap that WWE and TNA do. They tone down their talent beyond recongition to the point where you question what they see in those guys.
Places like ROH and Dragongate have forever spoiled me. While American and Mexican big-leagues offer the same crap over and over again to the point where you can predict what's going to happen without looking, the independants worldwide and Japanese big-leagues offer excitement and innovation that WWE, TNA and AAA used to offer but now just can't.
I mean, just look at this match! This is a mat-classic in the making. It's hard-hitting, high energy, unpredictable, not too routined, all in all what I love to see in a wrestling match. Kenta Kobashi has to be my second favorite wrestler in the world, second only to Kane.
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Post by Loken on Jun 30, 2011 20:02:26 GMT -5
I'm not going to get into the independent wrestlers just yet since I don't know too much about them.
I grew up watching the tale end of the WWF. I was born in 1994 and wrestling was a permanent fixture in our house. Back in the days of some of the most colorful wrestlers, exciting matches, things like TLC matches on non-special event nights, mud wrestling with chicks, and masked Kane. there was still choreography, but to a lesser extent and it looked real.
Alot of that changed when it became the WWE, each night was less special and there was more and more choreography and even more emphasis on the storylines. Now I like a little storyline, it makes it seem less business-like, like there's a motive for the fights, but when that's most of the show it's a problem.
I watched Raw about every monday night until 2008 when I stopped watching. Really I think my enthusiasm for wrestling peaked in 2005 when I saw Wrestlemania, the one where Kane 'killed' the Undertaker, it was the best thing I ever saw. Really though what helped me stay interested in the WWE was the games, me and my brother played Smackdown vs Raw every night for hours. When most of my favorite wrestlers left and with very few likable new wrestlers I just gave up on it.
That spirit did come back for one night in 2009 though. WWE came to Poplar Bluff MO, 30 minutes away from my home in Corning AR. Me and my brother got second row seats and it was fantastic. Unfortunatly most of the new wrestlers there were blatantly faking everything so that was a bit of a downer. BUT! The main event was Kane and Undertaker Vs Mark Henery and his fat friend. It was a great match and both of my favorite wrestlers were in fine form and I went home a very happy boy.
P.S. Ultimo Dragon is awesome.
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jun 30, 2011 23:22:49 GMT -5
I agree.Ultimo Dragon is awesome. One of the best things he ever did is co-found Dragongate, wich I've been a huge fan of since their unfortunatly breif partnership with ROH. I would realy like to see him in person someday.
Most of my personal friends are independant wrestlers. They're realy nice, low-ki people to talk with mostly.
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Post by Rockman Striker on Jul 1, 2011 14:48:55 GMT -5
I don´t completely dislike WWE, they know how to make a show, I really like Undertaker´s entrance both before and now, and HHH is my father... well that´s what my mom says. Remember when Sheamus debuted in RAW? He´s first fights were againts Yoshi Tatsu, Tomi Dreamer and such, they have a lot of wrestlers wich only work is as dummies, usually you know who´s gonna win when one of them goes on the ring, but one night I saw a fight that featured Cody Rhodes and Ted Dibbiase vs two twins that I don´t remember their names because they always loose, this time they give a very good fight that lasted long enough to let them show their moves, I get impressed that they had so potential, unfortunately WWE always limit their fights to less than 1 minute. Here´s a match between Volador Jr. vs La Sombra: youtu.be/_FpKms8TswkNotice the symbol on the back of Volador, Venom is cool. Mistico (Sin Cara) for those of you who haven´t seen his previous mask. 4.bp.blogspot.com/_fBTaIFmM7hQ/TUizROA6ZrI/AAAAAAAAE8w/_KmIHEnXu6E/s1600/1236802924032_f.jpg
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jul 1, 2011 18:00:35 GMT -5
I once met Tommy Dreamer. It was at Dragongate USA:Fearless at the Congress Theater in Chicago Illinois. He was beating up a kid named Jon Moxley, (now Dean Ambros in FCW,) and he came over to my direction, so I picked up my chair and yelled "TOMMY! USE MY CHAIR! USE MY CHAIR!!" He said "Okay." He picked up Moxley, I positioned by chair, and he rammed Moxley head first into my seat! The leg of the chair hit my thigh, but I was in so much shock I didn't feel a thing. It was one of the best moments of my life!
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Post by Loken on Jul 2, 2011 11:40:45 GMT -5
Oh man that's awesome Orion, Tommy Dreamer has always been cool.
Apparently Macho Man Randy Savage didn't die from a car crash, but from a heart attack that caused him to crash. He was one of my all time favorite wrestlers.
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jul 3, 2011 2:08:46 GMT -5
I would have loved to meet Mach Man. Too bad he died so soon. It's still a little hard to beleve he's gone whenever I see him. It's like when Eddie Guerrero died all over again.
By the way, that promo you might have seen CM Punk cut on Raw, it was a shoot. Totaly unscripted. They told him to go out and say what's in his heart. Too bad they didn't know what CM Punk was gonna say! Since that past Raw taping, although in storyline CM Punk has been suspended indefinatly, he's currently been working an Austrailian tour against his will. And on this tour, CM Punk has been letting loose more dirty secrets that the wrestling sites haven't posted yet, but Vince McMahon was scrambling with the production crew cutting every cord they could find until they finaly unplugged Punk's microphone. I hope somebody bootlegged those segments to Youtube. I would love to see them! The WWE has been trying to work a new deal with CM Punk, but Punk realy wants to quit WWE and go back to ROH.
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Post by Loken on Jul 3, 2011 12:01:11 GMT -5
Wow really? That's crazy, I hope they put that on Youtube too, I'd like to see it.
Macho Man seemed like a really nice guy and he had alot of passion for wrestling, you could just tell.
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jul 4, 2011 17:18:29 GMT -5
Wow really? That's crazy, I hope they put that on Youtube too, I'd like to see it. Macho Man seemed like a really nice guy and he had alot of passion for wrestling, you could just tell. That Macho Man did. By the way, one of CM Punk's unscripted rants is on Youtube right now!
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Post by karkatvantas on Jul 11, 2011 12:15:08 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2011 11:31:00 GMT -5
I always enjoyed watching wrestling, as long as the match is fair and no one barges into the ring to beat the stuffing out of someone that had just won a difficult.
Since many of my favourite wrestlers had became Heels, my list became quite small. Amongst my still-favourite wrestlers would have to be Rey Mysterio and Sin Cara.
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Post by Handlebar-Orion X. on Jul 14, 2011 18:46:39 GMT -5
Were you refering to my old pal CM Punk there Hanky? If so, good choice. And I thouroughly agree with you Steffie. Those meaningless run-ins are offten called shmozes by veterains and legends like Bret Hart and Diamond Dallas Page. Luckily the promotions I'm into, (listed in this thread,) don't often do that stuff. Wich is one of the reasons why I love them.
Speaking of promotions I love, on August 13th, I'm gonna be in attendance for ROH's first ever network television taping at the Chicago Ridge Frontier Feildhouse in Chicago Ridge IL! Charlie Hass & Shelton Benjamin are shedueled to face The Kings of Wrestling. (Chris Hero & Claudio Castagnioli.) I'm pretty excited because I always wanted to be in attendance for a ROH TV taping ever since they were on HDNet.Now that they're owned by SBC, they'll be featured on multible local TV stations (mostly FOXes and My Networks,) in most sections of the US. Even if you have rabit ears you could get ROH without having to pay an extra $20 to $50 extra for one channel. It's going big-time baby!
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Post by karkatvantas on Jul 14, 2011 23:58:42 GMT -5
I was making reference to TF2. I'm not actually a fan of wrestling, but Heavy has a luchador hat.
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