Qwertman
Habarool
Work work work...
Posts: 736
|
Post by Qwertman on Jan 3, 2010 1:36:17 GMT -5
You're right, even though the indulgences thing brings the church a similarity to the Catholic church at a time it was... not exactly on a lot of people's good side, the part where they value the lives of the reaverbots (the other side) as well is a huge contrast to that era so we're probably just over-analyzing accidental resemblances.
It's pretty hard not to though, as I am currently reading "The Mists of Avalon" which talks a LOT about religion around (before) the pre-reformation period.
|
|
|
Post by Rockman Striker on Jan 4, 2010 19:46:41 GMT -5
I guess the real question would be why they chose to build a church over a ruin, as their location is stagnant. It could be because it's the last place pirates would actually try to look for one; I never really thought they worshiped the reaverbots, as it more or less seems like a traditional, God-worshiping church. However, this quote from the priest himself sort of caught my eye:
May God's blessing be upon you, my Digger friend. Even though you do so in self-defense, it must be hard on you to kill so many innocent Reaverbots. Let me pray for you. I will require a donation, however. In light of MaJoR's post, I'd think that they had some sort of high view of reaverbots; not enough to worship them, but enough that they consider their lives just as important as their own.
People build churchs in graveyards, or graveyards in churchs, why not put a church on a ruin? About the quote: "May God's blessing be upon you, my Digger friend": i found it a bit strange, i mean, in Yosyonke, people worship "The godesses" who are Yuna and Sera, in the church are images and paints referent to they, none about a (man) god, so, WHICH GOD he was talking about? Off topic, but referent to quote: My question is: What are exactly the reaverbots, they`re robots, but somes eat, breath, grow/evolve or have childs! the people consider them living beings!.
|
|
|
Post by Pitch on Jan 4, 2010 20:28:57 GMT -5
@rockman Juno My memory's too hazy to say with any certainty, but it's possible the story of the Goddesses is just a story. It may not be part of the Carbons' central belief system. Or perhaps it was part of an older religion which the Carbons don't practice any more. But I guess the carbons' religion could've been altered in localization to revolve around a central "God" character. I could easily see people being offended by Capcom endorsing polytheism. (>__>) Then again they may just be referring to the Master. It's possible Legends 2 doesn't give you the whole picture of the carbons' religion. It's also possible Capcom hasn't thought about it half as much as you have. Just sayin’. On the subject of what Reaverbots are, your guess is as good as mine. I still can't even determine whether or not the reavers are part of the elder System or the Master's System. Also, given the apparently mechanical nature of the carbons themselves, it's highly possible the Reaverbots and carbons are more closely related than you might think after playing through the series. But once again, in all likelihood, Capcom gave it little to no thought.
|
|
GSG
Cannam
o_e
Posts: 331
|
Post by GSG on Jan 5, 2010 0:33:30 GMT -5
My memory's too hazy to say with any certainty, but it's possible the story of the Goddesses is just a story. It may not be part of the Carbons' central belief system. Or perhaps it was part of an older religion which the Carbons don't practice any more. The townsfolk seem to think it holds water. I mean, they did erect a statue. Mind you, who knows how long that's been there? I'd be tempted to chalk it up as some kind of local folklore if it weren't for this: Woman in Pink Sweater: When they were little, Von Bluecher and his friends were very interested in the story of the goddesses. He thought the earth goddess was sleeping on Forbidden Island.
Woman in Pink Sweater (after previous quote): My father is the priest at the gallery just outside of town. He used to tell Von Bluecher and his friends all sorts of stories. So presumably the priest preaches this stuff as well. Their religion seems to be a mash-up of the Catholic faith and this old legend. Are we supposed to assume then that the God he talks about is actually the Master? Still, even if that's the case, I have no idea if other regions follow this amalgamation of beliefs. It could just be Yosyonke because it's linked into the legend. May God's blessing be upon you, my Digger friend. Even though you do so in self-defense, it must be hard on you to kill so many innocent Reaverbots. You know, we go around doing digs all over the place, but...Is it right? It's almost like stealing... These quotes are intriguing. The fact that Mega Man Legends is aware that it's a game is a bizarre ongoing theme, and things get pointed out that you'd otherwise take for granted. At one point, Roll even asks if it's really okay for you to let yourself into other people's houses and go through their things without their permission! It sort of trips you up a bit.
|
|
Qwertman
Habarool
Work work work...
Posts: 736
|
Post by Qwertman on Jan 5, 2010 16:04:33 GMT -5
You know, we go around doing digs all over the place, but...Is it right? It's almost like stealing... This is standard archetypal journey stuff. Today in lit class we were talking about archetypes and the busywork involved coming up with examples. I of course used the MML story/backstory and that quote particularly fit the professor's definition of the 'Journey' archetype. The MML series' story really is pretty sophisticated for that of a video game after all!
|
|
|
Post by blayze16 on Jan 6, 2010 9:16:19 GMT -5
About the quote: "May God's blessing be upon you, my Digger friend": i found it a bit strange, i mean, in Yosyonke, people worship "The godesses" who are Yuna and Sera, in the church are images and paints referent to they, none about a (man) god, so, WHICH GOD he was talking about? I remember Breath of Fire III, the Urkans (and Garr) worship and honor (for lack of better terms) their God. But when you reach the center of Myria Station, you find that their "God" was a "Goddess" all along.
|
|
|
Post by Buster Cannon on Jan 6, 2010 12:15:23 GMT -5
I'd be tempted to chalk it up as some kind of local folklore if it weren't for this: Woman in Pink Sweater: When they were little, Von Bluecher and his friends were very interested in the story of the goddesses. He thought the earth goddess was sleeping on Forbidden Island. I thought the story of the goddesses was an allusion to the Yuna/Sera story, what with there being an earth and sky goddess. In the case of the story mentioned above, the earth goddess (Yuna) was actually "sleeping" on Forbidden Island, as you actually see her inactive body lying in a dropship on your first trip there. In fact, there's a direct reference to Elysium in the story that the person by the statue tells:
Two goddesses, the same yet different. One goddess to rule the heavens above, one to rule the earth below. She of the earth guards the key, she of the sky guards the record of the ages. When the sky goddess lifts up her voice, all shall end, and all shall begin...What do you think? Interesting little story, isn't it? In the case of Yuna, I'd guess that they were referring to the 4 keys when they say "key"; either that or the library keys housed on Yosyonke. At the same time, Sera guards the library, which is for llack of a better term the "record of the ages". The second part of the story refers to the Carbon Reinitialization Program, where all shall end and all shall begin.
|
|
GSG
Cannam
o_e
Posts: 331
|
Post by GSG on Jan 6, 2010 22:08:01 GMT -5
The MML series' story really is pretty sophisticated for that of a video game after all! For a Mega Man game, it's incredibly in-depth. A lot of love went into this series - sadly, not a lot of love came out of it. *Sheds a single tear* I thought the story of the goddesses was an allusion to the Yuna/Sera story, what with there being an earth and sky goddess. Oh, I drew the same conclusion. I'm just looking at it from the perspective of the townsfolk to decipher whether it's generally accepted as a truth or just a cultural myth. Sorry for not being clear. :B
|
|
Qwertman
Habarool
Work work work...
Posts: 736
|
Post by Qwertman on Jan 7, 2010 6:38:54 GMT -5
I've been thinking through this a lot and everything does really fit well. Although I did notice one sort of mistake. When Sera is activated, Yuna says Trigger's purpose was to hunt aberrant HUMANS. Umm, hmmmm. I thought all the humans were up on Elysium and the people on Terra were human based "Carbons".
Not a huge mistake but that sort of bummed me out a little when I was playing (I re-started legends 2 yesterday because I couldn't find my old save).
|
|
Traingham
Cannam
Oooh. What's this?
Posts: 320
|
Post by Traingham on Jan 7, 2010 13:17:01 GMT -5
I'd be tempted to chalk it up as some kind of local folklore if it weren't for this: Woman in Pink Sweater: When they were little, Von Bluecher and his friends were very interested in the story of the goddesses. He thought the earth goddess was sleeping on Forbidden Island. I thought the story of the goddesses was an allusion to the Yuna/Sera story, what with there being an earth and sky goddess. In the case of the story mentioned above, the earth goddess (Yuna) was actually "sleeping" on Forbidden Island, as you actually see her inactive body lying in a dropship on your first trip there. In fact, there's a direct reference to Elysium in the story that the person by the statue tells:
Two goddesses, the same yet different. One goddess to rule the heavens above, one to rule the earth below. She of the earth guards the key, she of the sky guards the record of the ages. When the sky goddess lifts up her voice, all shall end, and all shall begin...What do you think? Interesting little story, isn't it? In the case of Yuna, I'd guess that they were referring to the 4 keys when they say "key"; either that or the library keys housed on Yosyonke. At the same time, Sera guards the library, which is for llack of a better term the "record of the ages". The second part of the story refers to the Carbon Reinitialization Program, where all shall end and all shall begin. Taking that to mind, I suppose you could assume that the Carbon Reinitilization had been given the go ahead by Sera at least once for the legend to include something so ominous. Could somebody refresh my memory? Was there a specific set of conditions that the EDEN had to follow for "Carbon Reinitilization" to be activated? Overpopulation or tempering with the ruins, perhaps? It could shed some more light on the whole digging thing. Maybe it was forbidden in the days of the Goddesses rule and people started breaking the old laws again when Sera and Yuna disappeared. It could be one of the reasons that the church was built over the ruins.
|
|
Qwertman
Habarool
Work work work...
Posts: 736
|
Post by Qwertman on Jan 7, 2010 19:15:59 GMT -5
Wow, this is getting pretty epic. If nothing else ever happens with legends in the next 10 years I am going to write a novel or something completely based off of this. Of course legends will have been forgotten enough by then that only you guys will notice the connection if I change all the names.
|
|
GSG
Cannam
o_e
Posts: 331
|
Post by GSG on Jan 8, 2010 21:59:56 GMT -5
When Sera is activated, Yuna says Trigger's purpose was to hunt aberrant HUMANS. Umm, hmmmm. I thought all the humans were up on Elysium and the people on Terra were human based "Carbons". Listen closely. She says "Aberrant Units". Taking that to mind, I suppose you could assume that the Carbon Reinitilization had been given the go ahead by Sera at least once for the legend to include something so ominous. From what I can tell, it hasn't. Maybe one day, hundreds of years ago, Yuna got bored and started talking smack about Sera to the neighbouring towns? The Carbon Reinitialization Program was meant to be run after all remaining humans had died, so that new humans could be cloned in their stead using the genetic codes recorded in the Library. By all accounts, when Sera activated the program she was doing exactly what she was told. She still got a lot of flack for it, though. ._. Nevertheless, your overpopulation theory is still stands. Juno and other Island Masters can run localised reinitialization programs for that reason alone.
|
|
|
Post by Rockman Striker on Jan 28, 2010 15:56:18 GMT -5
About the quote: "May God's blessing be upon you, my Digger friend": i found it a bit strange, i mean, in Yosyonke, people worship "The godesses" who are Yuna and Sera, in the church are images and paints referent to they, none about a (man) god, so, WHICH GOD he was talking about? Off topic, but referent to quote: My question is: What are exactly the reaverbots, they`re robots, but somes eat, breath, grow/evolve or have childs! the people consider them living beings!. Forget what i posted before, i found something strange, In Rockman Dash 2 Episode 1 there´s some little altar: i375.photobucket.com/albums/oo199/Rockman_Striker/rmd2e1altar.jpgI noted this before, but i wasn´t able to take a shot because i don´t had any emulators. So, there´s a little reaverbot-looking statue in an altar, it also has some onigiris (rice balls) and what looks like two vases, maybe for putting flowers in them, so, looks like in another islands had differents beliefs too. and others do worship the reaverbots.
|
|
|
Post by Buster Cannon on Jan 28, 2010 16:22:02 GMT -5
Interesting find! It actually looks sort of like a memorial to someone, but the little figure in the middle seems to suggest that it could be an altar of some sort. You have to keep in mind the fact that only the citizens of Yosyonke talk about the "Goddesses"; it's possible that each island (I'm assuming this one's Manda) has it's own religion, in which they each worship something different. The figure doesn't look like a reaverbot; it looks more-so like a doll.
Another interesting detail is that the altar (or whatever it is) hasn't been touched in a while; there's a cobweb hanging from the top, there are no flowers in the vases (they very well could be torches lacking flame), and taking that into account I don't even want to know how long those jelly donuts rice balls have been sitting there.
It's a shame so many of the details that went into the demo were left out of the final product.
|
|
|
Post by lifescythe on Feb 19, 2010 19:05:38 GMT -5
The Legend of the two Goddesses has nothing to do with the Church. It actually is the story of Sera and Yuna.
"One goddess to rule the heavens above [Sera], one to rule the earth below [Yuna]. She of the earth guards the key, she of the sky guards the record of the ages [library]. When the sky goddess lifts up her voice, all shall end, and all shall begin [reinitilization program]."
"The legends say that long ago, the world was watched over by two goddesses. One guarded the Keys on the land, the other protected the gates of the sky"
"...One day, when the goddess of the sky came to borrow the Keys from the goddess of the earth, they argued, and the sky goddess was imprisoned by the earth goddess on Forbidden Island."
To my knowledge the priest never admits that he believes in the legends.
Furthermore I am fascinated that this is not the first time religion has been employed in a megaman game.
In MHX, Dr. CAIN built Sigma who blew up ABEL City
In X8 the Jakob elevator (an homage to Jacob's ladder in Genesis 28:10-12)
Jakob was built in the galapagos islands (where Darwin formulated his theory)
Specifically it was built in a place called Noah's Park
In Command Mission there was an orbital elevator called "Babel"
Legends is merely continuing the trend.
|
|