Shocking Health care plan

[Trege]

Well heres something that ruined my week, I don't know what your guys oppinion on this is but I'm annoyed even more now, I've heard a lot of crap but this just takes the cake.

www.mediafire.com/?sharekey=80e36a824e1d6d1b931c7453395df025e04e75f6e8ebb871

Play this in windows media player, it's a recent talk show about
the new health care plan reform.

Mirror MP3 version :
www.mediafire.com/download.php?tmkhztzztmn

[Trege]

I think this warrents a double post, since it adds to the overall topic.

Apparently based on what I've heard the government wants to force people
in medicare to have them take counseling with a doctor every 5 years and have suggestions of how to commit suicide, and tips on how to decline nutrition and hydration in the body.

Also if during the 5 years you get cancer or some other disease you have to take the counseling again, if you ask me this idiot needs to be removed.

I also heard they plan to deny care to the elderly in this bill.

Hopefully this health care bill won't pass congress, but the presidents trying to rush it through so the citizens can't see it.

And I think everyone should know about this.

If you want all of the details download the MP3, as it's more reliable than the m3u file.

[Captain Amadeus (Legendary Em)]

... I don't even pretend to know much about politics. And, no offense, but I doubt if anyone else here cares to get in a discussion about such a delicate matter on a VIDEOGAME board. Seems to be just asking for trouble, so I won't even get into it.

Politics is like religion: many people believe they are absolutely right and that the opposing side is full of nut jobs. Meanwhile, independant voters and aethiests (like myself, on both accounts) just stand on the sidelines and try to ignore it all, even if that means they are attacked from both sides.

[in·clover]

Aug 6, 2009 13:22:40 GMT -5 Trege said:

If you want all of the details download the MP3, as it's more reliable than the m3u file.

It's a mirror, though. Not a different show?

I'd like to know more about the suicide counseling. Not biased on the subject, I'm just skeptical. I know people like to put fun words on things even if they're not appropriate because scary = hilarious.

Is there a link to this info?

[Trege]

It's okay I just thought I should post it somewhere just so some people could see it,
I don't like discussing politics much either because it can ruin friendships.

posted right before me, anyways
The mp3 is the same file it's just more reliable because m3u's are hosted on a streaming server, rather than inside your hard drive.

Anyways I have no links I just heard this info on the news, but it's from a talk show I hear a good amount of people listen to.
and other sources, if it were possible for me to post a copy of the bill I would but sadly it's not.

-----
I used the word suicide to show how serious this is, as it's
what the counseling is about, they are just trying to put it in nicer words.

[in·clover]

...You should have used the words snuff it. They're even funnier. ;D

Aug 6, 2009 13:28:58 GMT -5 Captain Amadeus (Legendary Em) said:

Politics is like religion: many people believe they are absolutely right and that the opposing side is full of nut jobs. Meanwhile, independant voters and aethiests (like myself, on both accounts) just stand on the sidelines and try to ignore it all, even if that means they are attacked from both sides.

This. Well, sort of...

I'm radically agnostic (if that's at all possible), and I wholeheartedly believe nobody knows; not me, not you, not them. That's how I feel about politics too. Like, everyone's evil. Just pick the man that suits you best. Stop playing good vs. evil, there is no such thing. There's only silly propaganda and petty shouting matches. Not that those aren't fun, mind you. Just recognize it for what it is is what I'm sayin'.

[Captain Amadeus (Legendary Em)]

Aug 6, 2009 13:54:32 GMT -5 in·clover said:

I'm radically agnostic (if that's at all possible), and I wholeheartedly believe nobody knows; not me, not you, not them. That's how I feel about politics too. Like, everyone's evil. Just pick the man that suits you best. Stop playing good vs. evil, there is no such thing. There's only silly propaganda and petty shouting matches. Not that those aren't fun, mind you. Just recognize it for what it is is what I'm sayin'.

Heh, actually, I think a "radical agnostic' would be the same thing as an aethiest. The only difference between the two is that one side believes that it could theoretically be possible for a god to exist. Anyways, the rest of your post accurately sums up everything I believe. Ain't it funny how whenever politics are mentioned, religion comes into it? This time it was my fault, I suppose. Oops ;D.

[Traingham]

Politics and Religion tend to go together hand in hand for some
reason, so don't blame yourself for that.

...Oh yeah, and war.

[Cleveland Rock]

I usually stay out of political debates on forums, but this is a particular issue that's very important to me and affects me very much.

I'm uninsured, and, when I was insured, the insurance was crap and they didn't cover anything I needed. Health care reform is something the country needed since the 1960s and I'm glad I don't have to suffer much longer.

www.whitehouse.gov/realitycheck/ This page was set up to do away with many of the rumours old people started to scare you. Allow me to summarize what it says about the plan:

• Disabled people, like me, will finally get the help they need, which I assure you they're not getting.
  
• The government's not going to tell you who's eligible and ineligible for coverage. That's what insurance companies do. This plan is here to eliminate that.
  
• This plan will save lives; not end them. In fact, euthanasia is illegal in 48 states.
  
• People will no longer need to keep their crappy jobs just for the health benefits.
  
• If you're already insured, you get to keep your old insurance and nothing changes for you.
  

If you still hate this health care reform thing, and you probably do (since you seem to feel strongly about it), just try to think what it's like for the people who can't afford to see a doctor… ever.

[killerninja258]

All right, look. People aren't realizing that the tax increase is actually fairly relative towards usual heath care costs anyways for insurance. The Federal, State, Local, AND the sales tax would all increase relative to current health care costs anyways. The federal government will also have the power by the way to actually REFUSE treatment if it's too expensive for your... stature. Oh, and yes, even if you have your own insurance, the government can still step in and refuse treatment. That's not right at all. I'm not insured, I'm unemployed, and have only 5$ in my bank account, and I still think that the nationalized health care is a bad idea. Not to mention the ABSOLUTELY HUGE dent it would make in the economy be removing the health insurers (Which constitutes millions of jobs). This health care move is suicide to an already economically ailing country.

[Qwertman]

THANK YOU CLEVELAND for posting that link. Because I was going to after reading the first post, but it looks like I don't have to.
Thanks to the Obama administration, looks like I won't ever have to worry about being uninsured (my Crohn's requires regular doctor visits and medication).

[Trege]

Well I finally found a link to the health care plan bill.
doesn't it just scream odd a 1018 page bill... (Something most people wouldn't have the patiance to read, let alone understand. It's so vague in some areas the government could just shove anything in there and say it's what the bill says.)

waysandmeans.house.gov/media/pdf/111/AAHCA09001xml.pdf

Heres what I've been told about the health care plan, if you care to look through the bill itself.

I'm not sure what version this is for but it should be near to the same.

Page 22: A mandate for the Government to audit the books of all employers that self insure.

Pg 30: A Government committee that will decide what treatments/benefits a person may receive.

Pg 42: The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your HC Benefits for you. You will have no choice!

Pg 50: HC will be provided to ALL non-US citizens, illegal or otherwise.

Pg 58: Government will have real-time access to an individual’s finances and a National ID Healthcard will be issued!

Pg 59: Government will have direct access to your bank accounts.

Pg 65: Sec 164 is a payoff subsidized plan for retirees and their families in Unions and community organizations like ACORN.

PG 85: The Government will ration your Healthcare!

Pg 95: The Government will use groups, i.e. ACORN & Americorps, to sign up individuals for Government HC plan.

PG 85: Specifics of Benefit Levels for AARP members - your Health care WILL be rationed.

pg 124: No company can sue Government on price fixing and there can be no “judicial review” against Government Monopoly.

Pg 145: An Employer MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan. NO CHOICE.

Pg 126: Employers MUST pay for healthcare for part time employees AND their families.

Pg 149: ANY Employer with payroll $400k & above who does not provide public option pays 8 percent tax on all payroll.

pg 150: Businesses with payroll between $251k & $400k that don’t provide public option pay 2-6 percent tax on all payroll.

Pg 167 ANY individual who doesn’t have acceptable HC according to Government will be taxed 2.5 percent of income.

Pg 170: Any NONRESIDENT Alien is exempt from individual taxes. (Americans will pay).

Pg 195: Officers & employees of the Healthcare Administration (the GOVERNMENT) will have access to ALL Americans’ finances and personal records.

PG 203: “The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax.” Yes, it says that.

Pg 239: Government will reduce physician services for Medicaid. Seniors, low income, poor affected.

Pg 241: Doctors—doesn’t matter what specialty—will all be paid the same.

PG 253: Government sets value of Doctor’s time, professional judgment, etc.—literally, the value of humans.

PG 272: TREATMENT OF CERTAIN CANCER HOSPITALS - Cancer patients - welcome to rationing!

Pg 317-318: Government will mandate that hospitals cannot expand.

Pg 354: Government will RESTRICT enrollment of Special needs people!

PG 425: Government mandates Advance Care Planning Consultations for seniors… end-of-life prodding.

Pg 425: Government will instruct & consult regarding living wills, durable powers of attorney. Mandatory!

PG 425: Government provides approved list of end-of-life resources, guiding you in how to die.

PG 429: “Advanced care consultation” may include an ORDER for end of life plans. AN ORDER from the Government to end a life!

PG 430: The Government will decide what level of treatment you will have at end of life.

Pg 469: Community-Based Home Medical Services/Non-profit orgs. (ACORN Medical Services here?)

Pg 494-498: Government will cover Mental Health Services including defining, creating, and rationing those services.

I'm not sure what to think of some of this as I'm not good at reading bills, because I don't have a law degree someone had to
explain the bill to me in these simple terms.

Based on what I've read in the bill the goverment will have access to you bank accounts.

PG 59
Paragraph H

1 ‘‘(H) harmonize all common data elements
2 across administrative and clinical transaction
3 standards.

(If what I'm reading is correct but this thing is so freaking confusing, I can't tell for sure.)

[Qwertman]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jng4TnKqy6A

Good informational video. Notice that comments against the video tend to be rated badly, hmm... I wonder why.
Any comments you see by bolbagh, those are me.

[Trege]

The real question here is, if this plan is so good why is Obama trying to push it through the
system where no one can read it He's trying to make the max votes needed for it to pass 50,
so it can slip by us.

I don't know if anyone here has been to the town meetings or not but I'll post a few videos of them.

Claire McCaskill Town Meeting--Healthcare Debate (A calmer one)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix18YPmsxqw

Kathy Castor - Healthcare Town Hall Meeting in Tampa - 8/6 (Sounds more like a riot than a debate but why would they riot if they liked the bill?)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kxaGfClPws

Another town meeting (These are all of the ones I could find.)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-Bpshk5nX0

Now why would these town meetings explode like this, if the bill was good, some democrats
don't even like the bill. Some of the congress havent even read the bill.

(I've been listening to the news both sides, and I still don't like this bill.)

Anyways I'm probably going to take the neutral side in this discussion as I don't want to somehow get in a fight with someone at the forums I love going to since politics can sometimes cause this I don't want to take a chance.

I'm going to save the major debates for real life.

*Runs off to play Rockman dash 2 now.*

[Qwertman]

I suppose it is wrong of me to take the position that this is the great wonderful change that will help us all. But there's middle ground to take! I won't expect it to be perfect, but there's a flawed first step (and sometimes second and third and fourth) to all things great. Even if the details are sketchy the notion is promising.