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Post by Buster Cannon on Jan 22, 2010 2:44:34 GMT -5
Tonight, I got in trouble for a four-word post. Apparently, if I had said "are not" instead of "aren't", I wouldn't have broken a rule. That's bullcrap and you know it. For one thing, as Green stated, you really didn't explain what you were talking about. Had you explained why things weren't looking good, you would've easily soared over that line. The rule really isn't too hard to follow as long as you put a little thought into your posting.
Lol my case was the same, i typed and abvreviation of two words and got bit by the same guy. But what can we do right? Kiddies got to enjoy their newly found superpowers, with so few active members, i guess it's a MUST to abuse extend control to the fullest, even if the reason for giving an official warning just got turned up an exaggerated notch. No, in your case your post was completely off-topic in addition to being short. And for the record, writing infractions is hardly enjoyable, it's just something we have to do.
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Cleveland Rock
Cannam
Disco Mustache Enthusiast
Oh look, it's that guy.
Posts: 328
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Post by Cleveland Rock on Jan 22, 2010 2:54:17 GMT -5
While I hate to further this argument, I have to say I did put thought into my post. Plenty of thought. In fact, to anyone paying attention to Capcom's suggestion box, which is the entire point of the topic, it makes perfect sense why things aren't looking good. I decided that stating the obvious would be a stupid choice.
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Post by mirak on Jan 22, 2010 3:04:37 GMT -5
And for the record, writing infractions is hardly enjoyable, it's just something we have to do. [/font] [/quote]Keep telling yourself that, love. Maybe someday you'll digest your own lie and turn it into reality. And since the last post i made in the previous page is probably going to get pushed aside because nobody likes change (that's why people are still throwing rocks at your black president), i'll just go back to refrain from postign and manufacturing amazingly insulting retorts to anyone who continues to PM me complaining about me calling snipers "campers". G'day!
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Post by Santa Melty on Jan 22, 2010 4:55:27 GMT -5
Whoa. Nice to see this thread getting some use.
Simmer down though, no need to go jumping down each other’s throats.
On Cleaveland’s infraction: Yeah, I can definitely see how that post could be marked for content based on the current guidelines. As a rule of thumb, if you pair an opinion with some kind of explanation, you’ll generally be spared an infraction regardless of post length. For instance, if you’d have said “The votes are looking bad” or something like that, it probably would have been overlooked. Green’s reaction is basically what we’re trying to avoid: people not being clear on what you’re saying. In cases like these, it’s not so much that we’re looking for “intelligent discussion”, as Mirak suggested, so much as simple clarity. Enough that some kind of coherent discussion can take place without people having to clarify themselves.
Of course, this is all very subjective and varies from mod to mod, which is why some short posts get picked on and others don’t. That’s why people can call us on these things. The kind of explanation you gave in your last post, for example, would probably be enough to acquit you if you sent it in as your appeal.
Of course, as Green pointed out, a few minor infractions mean next to nothing in the scheme of things, but if it bugs you, by all means.
Anyway, yeah. And the thing Mirak said no one would respond to:
I guess now is as good a time as any for a brief update on staff matters.
Over the last few months, we’ve actually been throwing around a number of ideas for changes in forum policy, most prominently some changes to the 4-word rule which would eliminate the minimum length requirement and focus more on raw content, and, to a slightly lesser extent, a system that would do away with the old “noted” practice.
There was also some stuff about the organizing of infraction logs, forum events, and ban proceedings, but no one cares about that, right? o.o
Anyway. The rule changes were discussed for a while, but they ultimately failed to garner a majority vote amongst the mods. The key reasons can be summarized thusly:
- Firstly, we are lazy bastards. Many of us don’t regard the forum as a top priority, and most of the time we do get to spend here gets eaten up by admin stuff as it is. The changes would require additional work on our part. This is a bad thing.
- Secondly, most forum-goers’ attitudes on the 4-word rule and the noting system seem pretty laid back. The practices have either never been an issue for them, or otherwise just don’t bother them.
So, if we can keep the majority satisfied and save ourselves some work, we’re not doing that badly. Q.E.D.
Anyway, relating that back to this discussion here, the key to why nothing has changed, I think, is that there simply doesn’t seem to be enough people who care about the issue at all. Those who do tend to come off more as a vocal minority. We’ve always been lazy bastards, but stuff’s still gotten done, so that’s probably just a contributing factor at best.
If more people speak up, though, we’re always listening. I’d actually be interested in seeing the result of some kind of “change”/“don’t change”/“I don’t care” poll on this stuff. An official poll of that sort was suggested at some point, but I think the proposal got lost in the ether somewhere.
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Post by fAB on Jan 22, 2010 10:14:07 GMT -5
And for the record, writing infractions is hardly enjoyable, it's just something we have to do. [/font] [/quote]Keep telling yourself that, love. Maybe someday you'll digest your own lie and turn it into reality.[/quote] While any disrepect to the staff generally gets on my nerves anyway, this attitude really bugs me in particular. On top of calling him a liar, you're basically you're saying he's a jerk and likes being so. Now, technically I'm not a mind reader so I can't really claim that he isn't those things, but based off my own experience I think it's safe to say you're out of line with these comments toward him and all your similar comments to the staff in the past. As former admin, I ran this place for a long time, much of it solo. Writing up warnings and sending them to people is not enjoyable work. It's a pain in the butt and it comsumes time. I don't see where people get off saying we enjoy it. I'm sure there are some people out there on other forums who do enjoy it, because there are undeniably people who enjoy being jerks in this world, but I don't believe that's the case here at Legends Station. I can easily think of half a dozen people I had to ban from this place that I couldn't wait to be rid of. When the time came to actually do it though, I was usually sick to my stomach. To be forced to expell someone permanently (or even temporarily) from this place was always a tough thing to do, no matter how much trouble they had caused. So, if we can keep the majority satisfied and save ourselves some work, we’re not doing that badly. That's not exactly how I would have worded it, but I suppose it sums it up in a nutshell. I would like to elaborate somewhat though. Imagine someone visiting a foreign country suddenly starts shouting about how the government there needs to change things, and comparing their laws with the laws of the visitor's own country. According to the visitor's own beliefs, he's right. Others may agree with him. Others may not, according to their different beliefs. Either way though, he's not likely to have much impact, is he? Please spare me any commentary you may have about my drawing a ridiculous parallel. I'm perfectly well aware that's it's a drastically different situation and may make unintentional implications. It popped into my mind though, and I think with a little imagination anyone should be able to catch the similarity (no matter how subtle) between it and someone coming to a long-established forum complaining about the rules because they're used to following a different set elsewhere. I'd like to remind everyone that I am not an active staff member speaking on behalf of the staff, contrary to some people's belief that I still run this place. In fact, I'm not crazy about the current rule set myself (some of you may recall I was taking a new approach with the forum moderation, back before Dashe was appointed admin and tweaked the rules more to her and the new staff line up's specifications). All in all though I concede that the staff has made things work pretty well as they are, despite the occasional complaint. And they do listen to those complaints, but if only a few people have a problem where nobody else does, I don't think the sometimes lazy staff should be criticized for taking an "if it isn't broken then there's no need to fix it" approach.
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Qwertman
Habarool
Work work work...
Posts: 736
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Post by Qwertman on Jan 22, 2010 12:20:10 GMT -5
It seems the only reason for rules where common sense exists is if idiots are involved. Therefore, if the signup process is difficult enough to deter idiots yet workable enough by anyone with common sense, we wouldn't have these problems!
Though that was meant to be humorous I do believe the bureaucracy here is a little excessive. For simpler misunderstandings that evade common sense's correctional grasp there is the concept of requesting that someone simply learn from their mistake. That part of the system is the only one I've ever been seen in action and it seems the necessity of organization in such a process is almost self-fulfilling.
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Post by mirak on Jan 23, 2010 4:02:36 GMT -5
I just laughed pretty hard with what someone (EDIT: He asked me to edit his name off because you guys get too sensitive in your anuses and might annoy him with your moaning) told me on msn: Of course with the "^Five words" part he fucks it up a bit but what the fµck right? is still comedy gold. While any disrepect(Is "disrespect" you twat) to the staff generally gets on my nerves anyway, this attitude really makes my anus itch (i trol u). On top of calling him a sick fuck, you're basically you're saying (Nice typing, fag) he's a jerk (he is according to some members here, confirmed in msn) and likes being so. Now, technically I'm not straight so I can't really claim that i like women, but based off my own experience I think it's safe to say you're a very handsome man and a way more competent individual. Also, we have discussed it, and these comments toward him and all your similar comments to the staff in the past gets us very angry, ergo, we have been trolled, OH LAWD NIGGGGUUUUH. HA! Shut the fµck up already. I'm sick of your delusions of grandeur and gigantic demand of respect that you don't even deserve. I don't know what you think, and frankly i don't give a flying shit, see, but you're pretty daring to demand respect when the staff of the forum makes this statement: Firstly, we are lazy shits. To fix the rules, 'course. With a straight fµcking face. Also, i thought this thread was for the discussion of the rules, and he says that since we are only "the minority" of the forum, the rule won't be changed because "it's a pain". So basically you can come here and complain about a rule, but "we won't do crap about it because you aren't a mob compressed of ALL the members, also we are not competent enough to run a fµcking forum with an average population of 15 active members", even though you earned moderatorship because SUPPOSEDLY, you wanted to make this a decent site, i thought we had that covered but yeah, i also thought you guys were lying shits from the last time we discussed this crap. So yeah, my point is, you want respect? Earn it, you pathethic excuse of an admin. This goes for all of you. Let me help you out, let's advance the procedure and let me just get rid of my account, i'm through with trying to give this turd a funny shape, maybe i should express mail you a turd twister, maybe then you'll be able to make of this forum something worth caring for. Oh, and i'm pretty sad to hear that "warning and banning is a tiresome chore for you", you know, you shouldn't have said that. What if, let's just say, maybe, someone decided to troll the fµck out of the forum on a silent night, when moderators and admins are not around? You know, the usual shït, DDOS attacks, porn everywhere, .js... And what if this board got reported to the proboards main quarters for displaying content against their ToS even if it was not endorsed by the staff? What if the forum got gigaloaded to death? It would totally suck, but maybe, it'd make you have fun with your job for once, doesn't that sound pretty sweet? Of course, i wouldn't do any of that, heavens, oh woodle doo! If i would, i'd have done it eons ago. Or maybe i WOULD because i'm a dïck and a proud one that thinks that he's better than any of you (i probably am, come on, get mad about this sentence). And since i'm totally never going to do any of that, i guess you guys can relax. If someone did come to troll you guys, well, I GUESS THAT'S YOUR PROBLEM, NIGGAAAAAA! ;P Ok i'm bored of typing. Sleep tight! I hope you guys have fun with the rest of your useless-ass members that contribute to this site by making threads lamenting MML3 uncertain future, making threads about silly suggestion boxes that aren't worth shït and making threads about galleries of penises and "secret" sex pictures with the female staff that are just a bunch of badly photoshopped pictures stolen from the "member picture thread" (this doesn't exist, if it would, it would be a delicious easter egg, HINT HINT). ;D I bet you seven porn threads that this post gets edited or deleted. Inb4 nerd repartee EDIT: In case it does, i'm saving a backup copy to spam it a thousand times, unlike you guys, i do get off doing this shït. bb
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Cleveland Rock
Cannam
Disco Mustache Enthusiast
Oh look, it's that guy.
Posts: 328
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Post by Cleveland Rock on Jan 23, 2010 4:47:17 GMT -5
Why don't we all just give each other a big group hug and be friends, instead?
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MayImilae
Zakobon
Badgeless, and proud of it!
Posts: 145
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Post by MayImilae on Jan 23, 2010 5:25:23 GMT -5
I would like to make a quick thought on what just happened here. Mirak went into a storm over a post count limit, and an infraction point that didn't even go to him. If there isn't a more basic forum rule, I can't think of one. This is a forum, not a chatroom. The word count limit is merely a basic cover to prevent "yep" and other posts that add nothing but postcount. Maybe it is a useless rule for this mature a community, but I by no means disagree with it. It is a simple protection to keep the forum a forum.
We have all known for a long time that Mirak was trouble. Just look at his posts, he has been disrespectful at every instance, going out of his way to snear at even the most basic authority at every opportunity. Why wasn't he removed long before he got to this point? This simple little rule, the most basic of protections, makes Mirak go into a classic two year old fit. But how this happened isn't what I want to address, we all know that. I want to address why it ever happened in the first place. Fear.
The megaman community is hurting as a whole. The fanbase has been shrinking, and with fewer fans, comes fewer members to places such as this. Those that remain, obviously, don't want to give up on communities that organize us. Because we have shrunk, we let a troublemaker such as mirak remain. We feared that we needed to keep him around despite the risks, cause he posted. Can we really allow fear to guide us? Do we need to change change who we are in order to survive? And even then, are we going to survive by lowering are standards to chase away those that have made this place what it is and embracing an anything goes mentality.
MMLS staff, you may have a hard choice ahead. The fanbase is shrinking, and MML3, I dare say it, may never occur. I know the members of this forum will stand by and help keep this place alive as long as possible; a more dedicated, loyal, and honorable group of people I have never seen before on any forum. Their loyalty is a testament to your work. So hopefully the choice will never arise, but it is still a distinct possibility. The choice to sacrifice what MMLS is in order to save it, to change it into the anything goes forum. Mirak was in a way an iconification of this. To my limited information, it appears that he was tolerated in order to keep the forum a little more active, to keep this place around. If this information is accurate, by all means I don't blame you, not at all. But the time may come where you may have to chose between sacrificing what MMLS has been and is now, so that it can continue into the future. Mirak and his passing is a chance to think about this hard choice; if it will happen, and what to do if it does. Please don't waste it.
As for Mirak, I'm probably going to get in trouble for saying this, but you know what, good riddance. You have disrespected this forum and it's staff time and time again. They spend their time, voluntarily, to keep this place going. If you don't like how they run things, then you could have merely left, respecting the differences and leaving for a place already as you like it, or even spending your time to make a place the way you want it. Instead, you, who has spent no time or effort into this site, want those that have worked hard to built this place to change it to fit your anarchist beliefs. And when denied this, you have gone out of your way to insult those that spend their time and effort making this place a reality. Farewell Mirak, I will not miss you. At least, till you come around again to fulfill your spam threats.
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Tau
Cannam
Abridged the Series
Donation for ze little fr?ulein?
Posts: 345
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Post by Tau on Jan 23, 2010 5:35:33 GMT -5
Farewell, Mir@k, farewell. I can't say I'll miss you very much either, but I wish you the best anyway. I hope you can find a place with people you are capable of respecting. Considering the staff and members of MMLS are among the best I've known in all my years online, I sincerely wish you luck with that. You'll need it.
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Post by fAB on Jan 23, 2010 10:55:57 GMT -5
That right there is the #1 reason why I feel the staff, well rounded members that I and/or the other staff have specifically selected, are worthy of appreciation. I feel that every member who spends time here and cares about this place should be grateful to them for their help in making it a place worth caring about. If that's a gigantic demand of respect, then so be it.
TauVertex, MaJoR, thank you for your kind words toward the staff.
As for Mir@k, I suppose a departure or ban was inevitable. I'm certainly not going to miss him either, but as I said when he was banned awhile back, I do think it's a shame. He's a pretty dedicated Legends fan and despite what he said in his final, immature-even-for-him post, I do believe he cared about this place a lot, enough to come back when his ban was lifted and stick around despite bad relations with the staff and other members and to try and make a difference in some areas. If he could have just dumped the illusion that the staff hated and was out to get him and realized they were only enforcing the rules that he as a member should have been following all along, then I think he would have been fine here despite his sandpapery personality.
Then again I may be wrong. *shrugs*
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Post by in·clover on Jan 23, 2010 13:11:40 GMT -5
If your post is barely a sentence, don't bother posting. I am amazed something this stupid went this far, and I hate to admit it but glancing at Mir@k's dying words I'm kind of ashamed to have stuck up for the guy in the past. From what he's told me before, I think there was something of a misunderstanding between you guys. I won't get into that, though. I think I'll just enjoy the peace. Sorry, Mir@k. I'm one of the few on here that actually like you, but you can't treat staff that way and expect to be welcome. It's like being a guest and treating the host like crap because you don't like the house rules, however petty they may be. Common courtesy is something you'll need if you expect to get along. Anywhere. With anyone. [/deadhorsethoroughlybeaten]
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Post by Dashe on Jan 23, 2010 14:47:20 GMT -5
Mir@k, if you're out there attempting to read this, you may have just saved me premature grey hairs with your departure. To appropriate MaJor's words...good riddance indeed. Hope you enjoy your IP ban. Honestly, this whole time I've held my tongue just to keep from stooping to your level.
I'm one of the few who has been striving to see Mir@k gone from the start, I'll openly admit it, even though I'm under the impression that it's pretty much an understood scenario anyway...even though I usually did wind up overruled, I still feel pretty guilty for not pressing harder for it. I've always been on the "Get rid of them and preserve the forum's standards" end of MaJor's spectrum, trying to preserve an intellectual integrity that most forums gave up on long ago. Not because I think I'm better or smarter than anyone else, but because I believe that the rest of the world should put forth their best efforts to at least TRY and appear literate on all fronts, the Internet included...and that most people are more than capable of posting intelligent things online, but merely choose not to. In the words of Shift, it really grinds my gears. I could go on and on, but that's a rant for another thread.
Again, to mutilate the dead horse further, Tau, Major, you guys rock. B-R-E-T, too...though I must admit your statement took me by complete surprise...in a good way, of course. And let's not forget fab and MLT, either, and Buster Cannon, who's been on top of everything in the staff forum for the last few weeks.
Edit: You too, Green. Way to stick up for the four-word rule. :-*XD
Let's give 'em a round of applause, shall we?
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Post by Pitch on Jan 23, 2010 15:30:41 GMT -5
Please don't lob me in with you, Miss Dashe. I have no objections to the five-word rule, but what transpired here in the past day or so is nothing I'm happy about. I wish I'd kept quiet. Also, If he could have just dumped the illusion that the staff hated and was out to get him and realized they were only enforcing the rules that he as a member should have been following all along, then I think he would have been fine here despite his sandpapery personality. I'm one of the few who has been striving to see Mir@k gone from the start, I'll openly admit it, even though I'm under the impression that it's pretty much an understood scenario anyway... Anyway... While I think Mir@k's leaving was a bit way over the top, it surprises me to see people's reaction to this is so cold. I mean, Mir@k specifically singled out fab in his post, but fab had more nice things to say than all most of you combined.. (which I'm sure Mir@k believes is a load of crap, but still) You're being jerks, guys. o__o Seriously. Mir@k contributed a lot here. Mir@k, it's really a shame to see you go. Take care and such.
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Post by Musashi on Jan 23, 2010 16:35:36 GMT -5
Well I can't say I'm all too surprised about how Mir@k handled this situation, I'm still not very happy that he did. A farewell really isn't in order from me, since no doubt he'll message me about this on MSN...
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