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Post by TronBonne on Dec 14, 2006 17:28:46 GMT -5
Ok, I just watched an episode of the Tyra Banks Show and they talked about this. I was just wondering what all of you think, I'm very interested in this topic. Can beauty get you further in life compared to if you were "unattractive?" On the show it seemed like the attractive person got better treatment...they had twins, but made one unattractive (based on what the viewers voted as being ugly, I'm not saying having these things make you ugly) by giving her a big nose, pimples, etc. They both went out for a job interview, the pretty one with less job experience, and the "ugly" one with a very good resume. The pretty girl got the job in both cases (I know this doesn't happen everywhere or all the time, this is just an example from the show).
From what I've seen/heard, I think that beauty can get you further in life to a point, which I think really sucks. Life shouldn't be that way, but I guess it is. I think it's like that in the media (as far as I'm concerned), because you don't really see a lot of "unattractive" celebrities anywhere. Just today I was browsing through a magazine at the library, and bam! Pretty girls with makeup and nice looking men in the adds...everywhere! o.o I really hope society changes the way it thinks. So if you guys have anything to say, I'd like to hear it...
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Post by sparda13omega on Dec 14, 2006 20:03:31 GMT -5
well to most people beauty is everything and it's stupid the way society thinks that.
but to the few beauty is'nt everything and personality is the most important
to alot of people there are NO unattractive celebrities.
they use "attractive" people for magazines and adds everywhere to apeal to the oppisite sex of course so they can get more money. if they tried using an "unattractive" person with clothes and makeup and stuff like that people would start thinking that it's for unattractive people and they wouldnt buy the product. and they would lose money and that would be bad(for the company)
so basicly depending on the person (which is most people) beauty is everything.
but the best way to think is
good personality = beautiful/goodlooking
bad personality = ugly
but that's just my opinon thingy if it makes any sense
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Post by Dashe on Dec 14, 2006 22:44:08 GMT -5
Well, first off, I have to say this...the majority of those models are VERY heavily made up for those photo shoots. Same goes with TV and movies--celebrities spend a lot of time wearing a lot of makeup, which can often go a long way. Heck, even when I did community plays, everyone still had to sit in the make-up room for hours and gob goop thick enough to ice a cake on their faces. I wouldn't suggest doing this often, because it's terrible for your complexion, but well worth the money if you have to do it for a movie or TV shoot.
As for attractiveness getting you further in life than personality...well...ever since I transferred schools, I've had loads of guys hitting on me and checking me out, and if they really like me a lot they usually buy me stuff and do me favors. I don't even flirt with them and they still bend over backwards for me till they ask me out and I tell them no. People constantly tell me I look good too, even if I have a few really noticeable zits.
But even though it really seems like a nice setup, rejecting guys is hard work sometimes, especially when they're persistent. A lot of them were either total jerks when they weren't trying to impress me, or really disgusting and smelly, or even worse, all of the above. It's really tiring, especially if you're not even interested in a relationship, and I don't have very many guy friends because every guy I've tried to be friends with in real life's wound up hitting on me sooner or later. I apologize if I sound a bit conceited, but it's something I've had to deal with on a pretty regular basis down at school.
But then again, Dash Myoku started hitting on me long before I posted my picture here. Maybe it is the personality...or maybe both...still, good looks can help you sometimes, but there are also downsides to look at as well. That girl with the big nose and zits won't have to worry about stalkers as much, and the guys that do talk to her will get to know her for her personality and actually want to be her friend long-term, instead of just hanging out with her to get a date and then dumping her when they lose interest. It all depends on how you look at the situation.
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Darfox8
Poh
Still Thinks He's Winning the Civil War
Posts: 424
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Post by Darfox8 on Dec 16, 2006 17:31:52 GMT -5
"Oh look at me I'm Dashe and I'm so sexy. Guys always want to give me free stuff and it make my life so so hard. blah. blah" Just kidding. I know you knew that other woman would kill to be in your position. The grass is greener on the other side I guess.
Anyway, to answer the question. Yeah, looking better can be an advantage in life but rarely does it push someone all the way to the top. The only garantee a good face gives you is that people are most likely going to be nice to you. But even then you can still have some people treat you like dirt. If your really good looking people will stereotype that your not that smart. I guess the best way I could put my view of this question is that: life may as well be a big game of odds. And if your prettier then they might tip it alittle in your favor. But big boobs doesn't mean a free ticket to a beach house, 401k, and a happy family.
Whatever. I haven't posted here in months and suddenly I come back preaching about beuty. I should buy a soap box.
Oh, and Dashe. If some of those boys are very presistent mention that your favorite game is Megaman Legends. Odds are that they play videogames and if thats true then odds are that they are some creepy fanboy and will think that you're stupid.
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Four
Gorubeshu
"Who ate my crackerrrs..."
Posts: 236
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Post by Four on Dec 17, 2006 5:29:55 GMT -5
Ah... well, I guess I could pitch in and let my opinion be known too ^_^. Does attractiveness get you anywhere?! Yes and no. I mean, if you enjoy being a model and continuous amounts of tedious yet fun activities in terms of a social life, then sure, why not  . The topic itself is so very unpredictable that it's a wonder why people seem to have such a solid belief on it. The perks about being good-looking and more importantly; knowing you are? Confidence. Lots and lots of confidence. The quirk? You may start biting off more than you can chew, and that can lead to a lot of depression if you 'really' thought you could do something, only to find out you weren't as talented as you thought you were. Yes, that's bound to happen to the best of us, but to the really attractive ones... that is a huge ego blow. The point is basically they're a lot more sensitive to things they aren't exceeding in. If you're not attractive? Nonsense! You just think it. Chances are, your habits turn people off, or you're doing something that seems to cover your good side. But the thing is, those who aren't so attractive wind up having so many other things to do they stop caring about how they look--which is a double-edged sword in a way. So to whomever acts like that, taking care of your hygiene will ultimately lead to something good, trust me. And finally, to most others who think they're so fat and that, at least to them, always means they're ugly... it's a nasty habit. Perish the thought and try some healthy ways to slim down... without sacrificing any kind of sanity whatsoever. Taking one's time is the most important skill in this area. Ultimately, being good-looking rakes in popularity, whilst not being attractive (it doesn't necessarily mean you aren't good looking... you could just like to do something most people think is odd) rakes some pretty reliable friends and a healthy dose of solitude with the right mindset. As for myself... no. I don't try to hit on someone just because they're attractive. It's a plus, but I like women with a brain... obviously they've gotta have the common sense to use it too. Women who are compassionate and confident at heart yet at the same time knows how to respect themselves, that's my kind of lady . I'm no hypocrite though... human nature won't allow me such enlightenment  . I'm a feminist, so yeah. Aaand, on a side note, women with talent make my heart flutter *gazes wistfully at nothing*. Edit: Oh, and since I'm kinda worried people'll think I look like a... well... not so good after what I said...  And I even edited it to show those that might think I'm egotistical that I'm still slightly insecure! Bwahahaha! |
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Dec 20, 2006 6:01:18 GMT -5
I’d have to agree with Fox’s opinion.
Being attractive, as far as securing a job, can be a valuable asset, but it’s skill, knowledge, intelligence, connections, etc that’ll move you up the chain. Similarly, attractiveness, as defined both by individual and society, is an asset in initiating and obtaining more intimate relationships, but will not secure them, not at all.
You see, when faced with an individual whom we know little about, we’ve little more to go on than their appearance and thusly it is this appearance which initiates a curiosity towards the individual, opening the pathway to a relationship; hence why attractiveness seems so important in the relationship scheme.
The same cannot be said of one’s inner self for we humans are fearful creatures. We create, both consciously and unconsciously, layers of facades and false personas to protect the inner ego. One’s true self is an elusive creature which is not as easily uncovered as even one’s “personality” is often but a farce or at best a fragment of one’s true self, and often only plays a role if there is an environment of familiarity. Only trust can open the way for one to reveal their true self, and trust is not forthcoming in our society. It is a thing which only a cultivated relationship or can yield, and so it does little to initiate relationships, save for those odd few who seem to have no fear in being themselves, but they are a true rarity.
Ah, but that is not all.
Many of us posses an infantile belief in “good” and “bad” you see. We believe that good things are innately pleasing, and bad things are not. We can see it in the tales of old where heroes are young and dashing and villains are old and monstrous, the old black-and-white model of what is good and bad. If you doubt that you posses such an internal belief, imagine that two people stand before you, one being attractive and well-dressed and the other appearing as a homeless beggar. You are informed that one of them mugged a man in an alleyway. Who would you believe, on instinct, to have committed the crime? Or perhaps you are in a position to hire someone, and the same two come in with similar qualifications. You would hire the good-looking one, would you not? Even if the disheveled one is more qualified, the same would be true for internally we make the assumption that bad-looks equal a bad person and we believe that they are likely to steal or slack off.
It is because of this that one will assume that one who possesses attractiveness must also possess traits that one finds attractive, that an attractive appearance must equal an attractive personality. It stems out of our ignorance towards that individual, and out of our wish for happiness, one which causes us to internally apply attractive personas to individuals whom we are drawn to but know little about, and so the problem deepens.
But it does ultimately come down to the fact that we cannot know a person until we enter into a relationship, but when we know so little about the person what have we to go on but their appearance? That is also why those who make an effort to open up to another have success with relationships despite not necessarily being the most attractive for they have revealed to the potential who they are and are allowing them to be able to look beyond mere appearance.
All this is not something which is likely to change, though. The media may be to blame for the application of various fashions and gratuitous makeup, but much of what we find attractive is born innately within us, relying on various proportions and symmetry. We are very aesthetic creatures, after all, so it is to be expected that we seek that which is geometrically sound. In the end, all we have done is apply various accessories to this innate sense of ours and called it beauty.
Seeing as this is the case, one must either wait until fortune comes to them or risk damage to their ego by opening up to another. The latter may lead to pain, but the former leads to worse, pain born out of emptiness and loneliness. Perhaps attractiveness is something defined well, but one’s definition of a beautiful inner self is something which greatly varies among us all. But I suppose I am wandering a bit here, so perhaps I should merely wrap things up.
In the end, attractiveness will net you a greater advantage both in the workplace and in relationships due to our internal biases regarding beauty, but it is one’s true self which will propel them to success in both realms (though, of course, there are many more factors that apply in the realm of the relationship).
Oh, and as I remember the topic of appealing people being present in ads I can say that it is the old and simple adage that, “sex sells.” One is more apt to buy something if the person with it is appealing than if the person wasn’t, not to mention remember it. Familiarity with a product produced through these memory ties can work wonders upon the masses.
As an aside, I differentiate between “inner self” and “personality” because personality also has the connotation of being just the part of the self which is evident, but not the whole self, or even the true self if the evident part is a facade, though it can refer to the inner self as well.
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Post by TronBonne on Dec 31, 2006 23:57:20 GMT -5
I'll just respond to a few things since I agreed with almost everything you guys said. =Pthey use "attractive" people for magazines and adds everywhere to apeal to the oppisite sex of course so they can get more money. Well, first off, I have to say this...the majority of those models are VERY heavily made up for those photo shoots. "If your really good looking people will stereotype that your not that smart. I guess the best way I could put my view of this question is that: life may as well be a big game of odds. And if your prettier then they might tip it alittle in your favor. If you're not attractive? Nonsense! You just think it. Chances are, your habits turn people off, or you're doing something that seems to cover your good side.  But it does ultimately come down to the fact that we cannot know a person until we enter into a relationship, but when we know so little about the person what have we to go on but their appearance?
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Jan 21, 2007 23:23:13 GMT -5
You people are all crazy, I've been beautiful for many a year and my life has been a cakewalk ever since. But back when I was ugly I couldn't even hail a cab without somebody thinking Godzilla was attacking the city. And those bunker-buster missiles? Not cool, man. Way not cool...
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Jan 30, 2007 20:59:16 GMT -5
I was kinda worried when you had that operation, BM, but it seems that it, having made you “girl pretty” as you like to say, was truly a success. ‘Tis good to hear its lead you to a better life from the days when you used to look like this. But those were the days, eh? At least, I think they were… Or maybe that was after the apocalypse… That all goes back to humanity’s insatiable desire to belong and be recognized. If people are receiving these things, or trying to exploit them from others, then they tend to endure nearly anything, not for the other’s sake, their friendship, or even “love,” but simply to secure these things. Sometimes you’ll even find someone who hates another, but poses as a friend to achieve these feelings. When it comes to better looking people with bad habits, if the person holds the sexual interests of the other, then they’ll be all the more willing to endure for those things they perceive a relationship to bring. They’ll endure until the relationship becomes too painful, then breaking up in a most terrible fashion and, in some instances, leaving the other bewildered and broken. Of course, the same can be said of relationships regardless of appearances as well as in instances where the dividing fault sprung from but a minor issue and not a truly bad habit. Such is the life we face, a game of deception and exploitation... ___ Heh, and I wish I could say I was “wise,” but most of my information regarding relationships comes from my friend who tells me nearly every detail of his relationships. The only thing I myself have is introversion and no social life, all of which leads me to spend more time observing and thinking about stuff like that. I kind of enjoy it, though, as it’s like putting a puzzle together, save the puzzle has no solution that can easily be perceived; the solution is one which can only be seen in the reflection of the souls of all peoples. Hurrah for INFPs… but I should really stop babbling, no? _____________________________________ And that, boys and girls, is what we call, “getting off track for all the wrong reasons,” not to mention a good example of what happens when you listen to cheesy 80's sounding music while typing stuff up... |
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Jan 30, 2007 22:17:06 GMT -5
Great SCOTT! My sig bar still says I'm girl pretty! Thank's for pointing that out, the joke ended some time ago, I think it's safe to say. Some time like December.
From my understanding of the relationship thing, boys focus more on looks and are more stupid about it, or are prone to stick around a sexy girl even if she's insane, whereas girls like personality in the long run. Like Dashe is always complaining about boys that have negative personality traits, like not showering or being pushy. G.staff, you mention advertising, recall ever seeing a commercial that shows a woman sweating while dancing to the tag line: when she sweats she hot, when you sweat you stink! Exactly. To a point, I mean serious BO can extinguish anybody's candle.
And you're all still crazy.
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Jan 31, 2007 22:18:06 GMT -5
Guess I missed that one, though that’s to be expected, no?
But yes, in the strictly instinctual sense, that’s all true. Guys are visually based, being more stimulated by what they see, and females are more touch oriented, being more stimulated by touch. They have their instinctual purposes in being so oriented, but as humans, we have more than just bare instinct. I’ve seen girls who are more sexual than any guy, and guys more sensitive than any girl (Not in the ‘emo’ way, which is really just depression; more in the not constantly losing eye contact with a girl because gravity is drawing his gaze downward).
Of course, I suspect women too still hold appearance in high regard. After all, would any girls around here date a morbidly obese fat man with so much acne on his face you can’t even make out his facial features and has a body that’s completely disfigured with mis-matched limb sizes, etc, just because he had a really great personality? Didn’t think so, though they may be more likely to be friends with them than a guy would be, depending on their personality. Anyways, the same applies to just mildly fat people with only a few physical faults, or even people who seem fine but are still below their norm. Simply put, there may be some truth to the old, “Girls overlook appearance but care deeply about personality” myth, but, “Girls favor personality to appearance, but still demand appearance at a greater, equal , or at best *slightly* lower level than their own for the first part to be valid.” would probably be more accurate.
‘Course that’s just ‘cause people tend to think of love in relationships in an almost purely ‘for mating’ way, in which, just like animals, appearance plays a central role, as opposed to a more friendship-like relationship, in which the person is more important. In that sense, I guess the “stupid guys” thing is because most guys tend to rely on a mixture of their gut feelings (In other words, instincts, which tell them to seek out the most appealing mate) and the area just below, which only reinforces that. I’d assume most, if not all, of the guys harassing Dashe are thinking in such a fashion. But that’s why people made sticks: So you could beat stupid boys with them and then poke their bloody corpses for fun. Hey, it helps curb overpopulation, right?
And speaking of Dashe, I hate to break it ya, but… a few blemishes doesn’t mean your ugly, or even unattractive. A face-full, maybe, but not just a few. Since you probably aren’t up to daily oil-n’-grease baths to keep the guys away, I advise getting a stick, preferably a pointy one that can stab and skewer as well. ‘Kabobs always make things better, right?
But yeah, I just had to mention that since it’s always baffled me why some people freak out over one tiny blemish… Dashe wasn’t, mind you, but that did reminded me of that.
____________________
Hmmm… It lacks that usual charm, doesn’t it? Needs more professionalism… and spice, methinks. And less stupidity, apparently.
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Post by Bureaucratic Model 1-3 on Jan 31, 2007 22:52:36 GMT -5
I'll concede the point that if you're utterly horrifying that will overide the whole, woman like personality better thing. But what I was referring to was the basic situation where both of them look okay, they're not over analyzing, the planets aren't alligned, and their back stories aren't influencing their decisions.
By the way always end with a joke. Like: How did the fish get over the wall? It jumped.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh, that's a good one. Get's me roaring everytime.
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Jan 31, 2007 23:10:47 GMT -5
Well, that was the extreme point, but if you’ll notice I mentioned that the same applies to people just below the line of good appearance as well. If the situation were two people of similar appearance, one with a good personality and one without, then of course they’ll go with the personality; that’s common sense, regardless of one’s gender. If I offered somebody a choice between a nice car, and a nice car with free gas for life, then which would you logically choose?
The thing is, life isn’t about equals, and if we have a better looking individual, and a lesser individual with a better personality (assuming the prior is at least approachable), and the woman knows nothing of either, then they’ll go after the guy with better appearance almost every time. Now, if they actually knew both people well, they might be more willing to go for the other guy, but even then, if he wasn’t appealing to them physically, then during those lovely younger years its unlikely he’d have a chance.
But yeah, I get the idea; I guess my little afterstatements were rather stupid. Heh, and I guess I am getting progressively stupider as well. Early Alzheimer’s maybe? I couldn’t say, but it does seem like taking months between posts was a better idea. Oh well, I needed someone to bring me down out of my state of happiness anyways.
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Post by megaboy123 on Feb 13, 2007 22:02:12 GMT -5
I have a question about something occurring right now in my life... I like this girl and we're both very flirtatious with each other( in a just friends kind of a way) She had a crush on me last year, but at the time I just saw her as a good friend. She was Extremely flirty with me, allowing me to walk her to class with her arm around mine. but she has a boyfriend now, skinny, not too good-looking, big nose, dirty-looking peach-fuzz mustache, the works... I see her walking around with him, her arm around his. I have to say I am quite jealous when I see that... I can't help, but think "Is she trying to make me jealous, or does she really like this guy a lot" I never really thought I would be jealous of a guy who is less-attractive than I am... And his personality to me is very very dull. He seems to me the kind of a guy who goes through high school and goes nowhere afterwards. As for me, the girl seems to still flirt with me A LOT... but kind of secretly now.... Like if it's just us two walking down a hallway and we run into each other, she'll give me these great big hugs where she walks at full speed into my arms, making me lift her off her feet, but if she's around her boyfriend she just gives me a boring hug...  My question is... What does SHE see in HIM? I know this question cannot really be given straight-foward right answer since no one in these forums really knows the girl or her mindset... but if you were the girl based off what I wrote What do you think she sees in him? I mean, I am a descent looking guy with a fit body, I do lacrosse and I will be doing football next year, and I am a good student, unlike the other guy who is only passing high school by going to summer school.... I don't get it... IS IT BECAUSE I LIKE MEGAMAN LEGENDS! ( lol she doesn't know I like Megaman Legends ) I just realized something after looking at her myspace, her headline is " I love the Mystery In You" maybe that's why she likes the guy  |
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Feb 13, 2007 23:57:48 GMT -5
Hmm, well, as you said, we can’t really know the situation as well as you do, but given what you’ve said I’ll give you my opinion:
The problem I see is two-fold: First, when she did want to be with you, you didn't return the feeling, so she instead looked elsewhere, perhaps thinking you didn’t like her in that way and that pursuit of such would be ultimately futile; second, she seems like a nice person, and as such, she probably wouldn’t feel right just tossing this guy by the wayside after she’s begun a relationship.
Given the way you described the prior year, she may simply have figured that since you didn’t return her feelings of crushiness you didn't wish to pursue any matter of serious relationship with her, and thusly she decided to look elsewhere for that, while at least maintaining some matter of relationship with you, perhaps purely out of friendship, perhaps to keep you around in case things changed. Most likely, she sought a sort of relationship beyond mere flirting, the kind where two engage in deeper conversations, share pains and problems, enjoy mutual activities, and all that fun stuff, something which, for about a year, you weren’t providing, keeping her at mere flirtations, which are far on the light side of the scale of social interactions.
To help out a bit, and also absolve me off my previous opinion’s confusion, I’ll quote thusly:
On the second point, you do have to realize that, despite his dour appearance, he is still a human being with the emotional works, and most people who have even a tiny bit of sensitivity will find it hard to merely toss off someone in such a way due simply to the emotional stress it puts on the one who is rejected. It’s quite the conflict, as people are prone to depression, seeking outward sources for their self-worth, and if those sources reject them, then how can they even justify their existence with their current way of thought? Others tend to pick up on these things, and even if they aren’t possessing of such dependencies, it is nonetheless a painful experience that most people would rather avoid subjecting others to; after all, it’s the emotional equivalent to being stabbed, and to merely hold that dagger is a conflict for most. Thusly, it’s not as though, even if she did want to be with you, she would necessarily feel able to toss him away, at least not without a very, very good reason, and preferably a mutual one.
As for what she could see in him, it’s hard to say. It could have been something internal; he might have listened to her and provided a sort of comfort for her problems, be they minor or major. Or it could just be a weak attraction based on something shallow (i.e. a talent he may have, such as artistic ability). It’s quite hard to say, really, as everyone is different on their likes and dislikes (one’s beauty may be another’s ugly…).
You could poke the issue a bit with her, if you had the time with her. Do so innocently, though, as it would most likely not end well to merely blurt out frustration about her liking someone else. In other words, try to work into it by, say, asking if they have plans for the weekend, and then keep the conversation around the two of them until such time as asking something like, “What is it about ____ that attracts you to him?” would seem appropriate, or at least not terribly out of place. This would, at least, gain you the information that you seek.
Now, if you actually care for her, you could just remain in the friend position and wait until such time as the relationship dissolves, as you’ll find is almost always the case with Highschool romances (college is a killer. Distance + hordes of new people = end of relationship, or so I'm told). Still, it would be best to consider your emotions seriously for jealousy is usually not so much a product of love as it is a product of the desire to posses an object, and such emotions, however strong they may seem, will inevitably fade when the object is yours, meaning it simply wouldn’t be fair to her if you that were the case. Just think about it, imagine how you’d feel if the guy wasn’t around and things were much as they were last year, as well as when the change in feelings toward her occurred; if they were born around the same time as this guy appeared, then that is a bad sign indeed.
Perhaps that helped, perhaps not; regardless, it’s something that ultimately falls to you. I’ll leave it to the others to chime in on anything I might have missed.
Oh, and the quote which was used above – It would seem I was partially wrong with my prior BM 1-3 dividing opinions, my thoughts being based on my own experiences in which it seems all girls seem to seek appearance, but the above quote explains why that is so, and why BM 1-3 was right as well.
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