Frankenpetey
Gorubeshu
Official MMLS Genre Sage
"It's for the family!"
Posts: 220
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Post by Frankenpetey on Apr 17, 2007 23:56:13 GMT -5
I haven't watched the Pokeymans since way back in the day, talk about nostalgia. I remember taking my little brother to the first movie and secretly enjoying it myself (although of course I was much too hip for such commercialized frivolity back in middle school.) XD But enough gray-haired digression! I don't think 4Kids is the only offender in terms of censorship, though they certainly went to greater lengths than most. Except for whoever made Sailor Moon sanitary for my three-year-old eyes. Blood erasure and gender-bending trumps anything 4Kids has done. ;p Speaking of Jezebel and her creepiness, I think a lot of the "objectionable content" from the first season slipped by since at the time there was a huge demand for all things Pokemon after the release of Red/Blue/Yellow that couldn't be met. Only the most blatently child-unfriendly material was pulled, and in those cases the entire episode was banned because carefully doctoring the scenes would have taken too long. (James' inflatable bosoms, anyone?) Of course, at the age of ten I didn't ponder any of this. I just liked seeing Charizard and Rapidash in glorious full-motion Technicolor. Later on, after the insanity had died down, 4Kids was able to devote more time to changing the translations and editing scenes, and got a little pickier about what it would air. I'm assuming that was the case, anyway, since by the time the second season rolled around I was a sixth grader and far too mature for such things. What strikes me as odd to this day is how comparatively uptight American anime producers (or whatever those companies are known as) were in the 90s. Until very recently, Disney animated films seemed to have a mandatory death quota, and I distinctly remember Negaduck charging people with a chainsaw and Don Carnage carrying a saber. Of course, much of the death and violence in Western animation was implied but not shown. In anime, however, even the implication of danger was painstakingly removed to the point where the shows were unwatchable drivel, and by the time I caught five minutes of Pokemon back in 2000 it was fluffy, uncompelling garbage. Heartbreaking, to be sure. Maybe James' utterance of the word 'die' is a sign that the trend is starting to reverse, though? Wouldn't that be lovely... Also, to help contribute to topic drift.....James is married? How can he be married when he's obviously....nevermind. And how long has this show been on the air; shouldn't he be pushing 30 by now? A little old to be getting pushed around by his family, no? Edit: Oh snap! This is the longest rant...sorry about that!
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Post by Dashe on Apr 18, 2007 12:45:56 GMT -5
Also, to help contribute to topic drift.....James is married? How can he be married when he's obviously....nevermind. That's exactly what I said back on page one when the idea of James being married was first brought up!
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Paragon
Ganburi
Has A Vebsite
I've been gone a long time, haven't I? :P
Posts: 536
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Post by Paragon on Apr 18, 2007 14:17:57 GMT -5
I highly doubt 4Kids would reverse the trend. Though even Yu-gi-Oh has mature content in its manga, due to the company's pickiness, none of it appears on the dub. 4Kids just does this to get paid to dub stuff, like a corporate version of Nick Riviera. Yes, companies are starting to reverse the trend (Naruto is a prime example). But if 4Kids would reverse it, they might as well change their name. Also, I'm shocked at how overprotective people get about cartoons in a decade. In Tom and Jerry, they had no qualms about Tom going on a drinking binge after getting rejected by the supposed cat of his dreams.
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Post by PharaohManXe54 on Apr 18, 2007 18:45:44 GMT -5
Quickie: On the subject of James, he never was married, just engaged. And he ran away because he "didn't want to be fancy" *wink* *wink* *wink*. Second, sometimes, I can see 4Kids justification on SOME things. First, the infamous Porygon episode. For those unfamiliar with the specifics, it was the episode that supposedly gave kids seizures in Japan. Second, I can kinda see the gun thing. Guns are kinda taboo here after things like Columbine and, more recently, Virginia Tech. Plus, pointing a gun at a CHILD is an entirely different matter than if, let's say, a cat did so towards a mouse. Now, to get AWAY from that. Some things they did with Pokemon are absolutely HORRENDOUS and overly protective. First, the inflatable boobs thing. GUESS WHAT, GIRLS HAVE BOOBS *SHOCK*. James FREQUENTLY disguises as a woman, with boobs drawn in. It's part of their disguise routine and to sensor it there and nowhere else is stupid. Second, the banning of the Tentecruel episode. They banned it because Tentecruel destroyed some buildings, and that is somehow EXACTLY what happened on September the 11th, right? Cause buildings in a FANTASY WORLD are the exact same as ones in REAL LIFE. That is WAY to overprotective. And last, but not least, the changing of and banning of the Pokemon Jynx (one of my personal favorite Pokemon ;D). The NAACP thought the old Jynx, pictured here: was somehow racist. They obviously did no research into what Jynx is supposed to be based off of (the Yama-uba of Japanese mythology) and jumped to their owned, automatically racist conclusions. They banned several episodes with her in it (some of them being really cool, like the Christmas episode) and recolored her purple. This, by far, is the stupidest thing that's happened in censorship.
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Post by UNIT 0918 on Apr 18, 2007 20:10:09 GMT -5
Yes, companies are starting to reverse the trend (Naruto is a prime example). Although I don't really like Naruto, I loved it that those guys who dubbed it used the original Japanese theme song. I guess they are listening to the fanbase. Two thumbs up to them!
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Post by GustaffGlyde on Apr 18, 2007 21:32:48 GMT -5
Well, what it all comes down to is target audience. You see, in Japan, anime is mostly targeted to the teen range, but such is not always so here in the States. Companies like 4Kids, as the name suggests, market their licensed material towards a much, much younger audience than that. Why, though? Simple – those little kids are money making machines. They’re the ones that buy the toys, the collectible cards, the clothes, and all that other useless junk whereas all the teen audience is likely to buy is a game, maybe some cards, and if they’re really a fan of the series, a few toys for collector’s purposes. To them, marketing towards kids makes them more money, and money is all that matters to them. Considering this, it’s easy to see why they censor things like they do. There really isn’t anything wrong with guns and the like (in FMA for example, the main characters are just kids for a good bit, but guns, blood, death, and the like are still all present), but when they’re marketing a show to kids instead of the proper target audience they have to take all that stuff out because otherwise they’ll be choked out by parents who freak out that it’ll corrupt their perfect angels. If they marketed towards the proper age level, few things save for excessive blood and, if there even was any, nudity would be censored, but then they wouldn’t make their money off the annoying little kids, not to mention there’s the task of trying to sell it to the stations as most channels that would air anime tend to be aimed more at kids as well. So, in short, not censoring for them leads to a loss of profits, and profits is all that really matters to most companies (has Capcom not taught us this already?) Now, that doesn’t excuse the poor quality in any way, but I suspect that’s just plain laziness on their part since those kids aren’t likely to be as critical or care at all (why care if they don’t? Once again, ‘tis a money saver). Edit before the unimportant stuffs: As for things like openings and endings, that's primarily a licensing issue. To use them, they have to be licensed from the artists which made them, which can be troublesome at times. Licensing isn’t always the only factor, of course (some companies want it to appear more "American"), but it is part of the decision. As for James, he himself once said, “it's times like these that make me want to go straight.” So… Yeah, taking stuff out of context is always fun. Reminds me of an old “One Piece out of context” thread elsewhere which was quite entertaining. Oh, and for those interested, here’s a list of the edits in One Piece. It’s by episode, and has most episodes down, as well as the general stuff and whatnots (pictures, as well as the occasional clips are there too). Speaking of One Piece, since FUNi won’t be redubbing the 4Kids episodes very soon (They’re picking up from where 4Kids left off. See here), there is always K-F… I’d say more, but I’m uncertain of the forum’s stance on such things.
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Goopygoo, Lord of the Whilst
Arukoitan
Sometimes, life gives you lemons. Which is odd, what with abstract concepts handing out free citrus.
Posts: 178
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Post by Goopygoo, Lord of the Whilst on Apr 19, 2007 0:39:15 GMT -5
First, the infamous Porygon episode. For those unfamiliar with the specifics, it was the episode that supposedly gave kids seizures in Japan. Now, to get AWAY from that. Some things they did with Pokemon are absolutely HORRENDOUS and overly protective. It actually was proven that the episode caused about 800 seizures. That's why you now see seizure warnings in video game manuals and before some TV shows. This doesn't detract from how much I want to see it though (Porygon's my favorite) And last, but not least, the changing of and banning of the Pokemon Jynx (one of my personal favorite Pokemon ;D). The NAACP thought the old Jynx, pictured here: was somehow racist. They obviously did no research into what Jynx is supposed to be based off of (the Yama-uba of Japanese mythology) and jumped to their owned, automatically racist conclusions. They banned several episodes with her in it (some of them being really cool, like the Christmas episode) and recolored her purple. This, by far, is the stupidest thing that's happened in censorship. This, I'd have to agree with 4Kids on. I personally don't think it's racist, but a lot of people did. If people pointed at something you drew and said "ZOMG DAT LUKS RASIZT" then wouldn't you change it before everybody gets your design banned? I know that I would. And don't tell me you wouldn't. I'm sure everyone here would do that if their job depended on it.
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Frankenpetey
Gorubeshu
Official MMLS Genre Sage
"It's for the family!"
Posts: 220
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Post by Frankenpetey on Apr 19, 2007 1:56:54 GMT -5
True, it's very unwise to tangle with the NAACP. I think Don Imus has illustrated <i>that</i> well enough. They have ways... >.>
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Post by ravenf6 on Apr 19, 2007 18:55:08 GMT -5
I don't think they bothered with that, since judging by the way things progressed in the (butchered) anime, it's assumed that Bellemere died during her imprisonment (Nami does visit a grave, if I remember). If there was any fighting, it got omitted, I remember one guy (can't remember his name, but he wears a pinwheel on his hat) who tried to stop them, it was in that scuffle that resulted in the many scars that covered his body.
As far as the Jynx/racist bit goes, that has to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Unfortuneatly, an idiot with influence can have better say than those who know better. Those NAACP folks serious need to start looking for evidence before doing anything else like this, the bunch of rubes...
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Post by aarond on Jun 6, 2007 12:00:24 GMT -5
The possibility of James having a wife, even a supposed one, boggles my mind. Everyone knows James is clearly...wait, that's off-topic. Actually, in one of the comic series that had a finite ending, James and Jessie got married and had kids together which Meowth spoiled mercilessly. Also, I was pretty sure Bellemere just died in One Piece.
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